Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop)

***caveseeker7*** · 27th February 2007, 04:27

Nice report of your experience, BAM, thanks. Plenty of people are in the same situation you and Jason were in, wanting (or at least considering) to get into RBs and not knowing which system to go for. Getting a close look at several and giving them a tryout is a goos way to go about them. Sharing the experience with others is appreciated.

Rob, I don't know where you get off on regarding the 20p remark. BAM shared his impression of different rigs, the post is no more and no less than that. Feel free to counter his impression with good arguments (as Phi did), but there's no reason to get insulting ... I still don't get the point you were trying to make.

Great opportunity to try as many units side-by-side, though at the expense of time on each unit. I did several tryouts and spend some time on Inspiration Classics, PRISM Topaz, MK16 and Dolphin. Clearly there are differences, and the WOB is among them.

Choosing a certain model(s

) of rebreather is as much a personal preference as diving one in the first place, and front or rear mounted counterlungs are certainly among those preferences. In my limited experience the o-t-s lungs breathe better, but both the MK I tried and Sport Kiss I dive breathe well enough for me to be perfectly comfortable using the rigs in the first place. Really like the little Sport Kiss, fair chance I'll hold on to it no matter what else I get. As you eloquently put it, BAM, Gordon made simplicity an art on

Whenever I get the chance I'll give the units I haven't tried yet a go, Meg and Optima, Cis and Boris, Pelagian and Titan, Shadow Packs and UT. Don't particular care if they're in production or not (unless I end up wanting one), the experience will be just that, and most likely some fun.

Cheers BAM for giving them a try, sharing your impression, and making your choice.
Wish you well with the Meg.

Mark Chase · 27th February 2007, 07:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot)

No Mark, it has never been hard, all it took was a little research, and then a commitment to the choice. You didn't buy the rebreather you thought you wanted, and we have since been entertained (?) in your subsequent exploits and upgrades.

Quite true but thats more to do with my uncontrolable need to fettle kit I supose.

The point is, the reasion I wanted the KISS instead of the Inspo is NOT the reasion i altered the inspo. I have never considered altering it to a KISS system.

The "issues" i found with the Inspo were totaly diferent to the ones I first considered important.

As an example of this when i first looked at wings i remeber looking at the Sea Eagle with about 30 shiney D rings on it and thinking, "wow that must be a hard core tec wing". Then someone tells you that a unbungied Halcyon with a single piece harnes and four D rinfgs on it is a better choice and as a newby you just dont get it.

ATB

Mark Chase

**PhilSiswick** · 27th February 2007, 08:53

Come on folks - give the guy a chance. He was open about his experience level and that these are just opinions. I appreciate it - I think I've got the best unit out there today, of course, but I still like to see other people's views of the competition.

The thing about all of this is that it is so subjective. On OC, I love Jetstreams and HATE Apeks. Most other people call me a blithering fool for that, but hey, it's my money. Both do their jobs equally well (well, the Jetstreams are clearly better actually ;-)

Cheers,

bambang · 27th February 2007, 08:56

Optima: Guy started out telling us about every thing that was changing on the unit... BIG RED FLAG TO ME.. hand set updates,frame changes, most parts Out sourced. they were not even responsible for Scrubber. this made me feel it was way over priced... and the quantity of changes he said were coming led me to believe the unit was still being BETA tested with users as the Test pilots... there were heavy tool marks on all the Delrin parts, so they looked cheap. Loved the loop volume... loved the scrubber cartrige... felt the Hammer Head was the only fire tested piece of hardware on it.

Yes, I completely agree with your opinion regarding this particular unit above.

Mark Chase · 27th February 2007, 08:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

Come on folks - give the guy a chance. He was open about his experience level and that these are just opinions. I appreciate it - I think I've got the best unit out there today, of course, but I still like to see other people's views of the competition.

The thing about all of this is that it is so subjective. On OC, I love Jetstreams and HATE Apeks. Most other people call me a blithering fool for that, but hey, it's my money. Both do their jobs equally well (well, the Jetstreams are clearly better actually ;-)

Cheers,

I don't think any one is criticising, just making the point that his finding on the WOB of the KISS sugest that the units were not idealy set up. Possably the same person who owned the KISS also owned the Sport Kiss and they were set up for the lung capacity of a mouse.

ATB

Mark Chase

**PhilSiswick** · 27th February 2007, 09:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I don't think any one is criticising, just making the point that his finding on the WOB of the KISS sugest that the units were not idealy set up. Possably the same person who owned the KISS also owned the Sport Kiss and they were set up for the lung capacity of a mouse.

ATB

Mark Chase

Hi Mark,

Fair points. It was the 20p comment that really bothered me - what's the point in posting opinions if people are just going to argue from that point of view?

No reflection on you - I've always found you very helpful. The TravelFrame is excellent BTW - thanks.

Cheers,

CharlieT · 27th February 2007, 11:23

The guy's as entitled as anyone else to express his views on this site.

A complete newbie has the opportunity to try a whole lot of units, why not?

Why try to shut him down? No one has to agree with his opinions.

Why take a newbie's comments of a 10 min try dive seriously?

If we're too hard on those who start threads, why should they post another?

Let's welcome him into the Rebreather World community and enjoy the fact that he's another rebreather diver.

It's a good thing I'd paid for my unit before my 1st Rebreather dive

I hated the 1st 10 minutes.

Charlie

**fireman** · 27th February 2007, 13:33

Thanks for the report and subsequent comments everybody. I'm off to Minnesota to try a few units myself tomorrow, I'll report afterwards.

Mark Chase · 27th February 2007, 13:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

Hi Mark,

It was the 20p comment that really bothered me - what's the point in posting opinions if people are just going to argue from that point of view?

Cheers,

Ohhh good call, I missed that comment.

ATB

Mark Chase

**Monkey** · 27th February 2007, 13:55

Here is what I have learned from this thread......

1: I NEED TO TRY A PROPERLY SET UP KISS CLASSIC AND KISS SPORT...
2: The 20P remark shows he has an emotional connection to his machine, and that’s the guy I want to get in the water with. His heart is in it... and that good. Do you really want to go deep with the guy who hearts into needle point?

I also learned I was not clear enough it letting this group understand one simple thing..

I welcome heavy criticism.... being politically correct and diplomatic in my book means it going to take me 10 times as long to get the information I need to keep me alive...

I know nothing.. I have no time in the water on the loop.... please smack me down when I talk out my ass you will end up saving my life.

I read some where on this board a quote that I have posted on the door of my wet room where I keep all my SCUBA Gear..

"Its a shame that stupidity is not painful"

so guys I am asking for your personal opinions.. Just because I am highly opinionated does not mean I am not willing to change my opinions or learn.

Lean something. Is that not what we are all here to do?

So witch one of you KISS people is going to offer up another test drive?

BAM

27th February 2007, 04:27	#21 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,435	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Nice report of your experience, BAM, thanks. Plenty of people are in the same situation you and Jason were in, wanting (or at least considering) to get into RBs and not knowing which system to go for. Getting a close look at several and giving them a tryout is a goos way to go about them. Sharing the experience with others is appreciated. Rob, I don't know where you get off on regarding the 20p remark. BAM shared his impression of different rigs, the post is no more and no less than that. Feel free to counter his impression with good arguments (as Phi did), but there's no reason to get insulting ... I still don't get the point you were trying to make. Great opportunity to try as many units side-by-side, though at the expense of time on each unit. I did several tryouts and spend some time on Inspiration Classics, PRISM Topaz, MK16 and Dolphin. Clearly there are differences, and the WOB is among them. Choosing a certain model(s ) of rebreather is as much a personal preference as diving one in the first place, and front or rear mounted counterlungs are certainly among those preferences. In my limited experience the o-t-s lungs breathe better, but both the MK I tried and Sport Kiss I dive breathe well enough for me to be perfectly comfortable using the rigs in the first place. Really like the little Sport Kiss, fair chance I'll hold on to it no matter what else I get. As you eloquently put it, BAM, Gordon made simplicity an art on Whenever I get the chance I'll give the units I haven't tried yet a go, Meg and Optima, Cis and Boris, Pelagian and Titan, Shadow Packs and UT. Don't particular care if they're in production or not (unless I end up wanting one), the experience will be just that, and most likely some fun. Cheers BAM for giving them a try, sharing your impression, and making your choice. Wish you well with the Meg. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 07:11	#22 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,558	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot) No Mark, it has never been hard, all it took was a little research, and then a commitment to the choice. You didn't buy the rebreather you thought you wanted, and we have since been entertained (?) in your subsequent exploits and upgrades. Quite true but thats more to do with my uncontrolable need to fettle kit I supose. The point is, the reasion I wanted the KISS instead of the Inspo is NOT the reasion i altered the inspo. I have never considered altering it to a KISS system. The "issues" i found with the Inspo were totaly diferent to the ones I first considered important. As an example of this when i first looked at wings i remeber looking at the Sea Eagle with about 30 shiney D rings on it and thinking, "wow that must be a hard core tec wing". Then someone tells you that a unbungied Halcyon with a single piece harnes and four D rinfgs on it is a better choice and as a newby you just dont get it. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 08:53	#23 (permalink)
PhilSiswick WSKD 0001 Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 922	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Come on folks - give the guy a chance. He was open about his experience level and that these are just opinions. I appreciate it - I think I've got the best unit out there today, of course, but I still like to see other people's views of the competition. The thing about all of this is that it is so subjective. On OC, I love Jetstreams and HATE Apeks. Most other people call me a blithering fool for that, but hey, it's my money. Both do their jobs equally well (well, the Jetstreams are clearly better actually ;-) Cheers, __________________ Phil No comment on open circuit... it's an evolutionary dead end not really worth discussing here. Dave Sutton, 2007 I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 www.hugsac.org.uk
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27th February 2007, 08:56	#24 (permalink)
bambang New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 47	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Optima: Guy started out telling us about every thing that was changing on the unit... BIG RED FLAG TO ME.. hand set updates,frame changes, most parts Out sourced. they were not even responsible for Scrubber. this made me feel it was way over priced... and the quantity of changes he said were coming led me to believe the unit was still being BETA tested with users as the Test pilots... there were heavy tool marks on all the Delrin parts, so they looked cheap. Loved the loop volume... loved the scrubber cartrige... felt the Hammer Head was the only fire tested piece of hardware on it. Yes, I completely agree with your opinion regarding this particular unit above.
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 08:57	#25 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,558	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) Come on folks - give the guy a chance. He was open about his experience level and that these are just opinions. I appreciate it - I think I've got the best unit out there today, of course, but I still like to see other people's views of the competition. The thing about all of this is that it is so subjective. On OC, I love Jetstreams and HATE Apeks. Most other people call me a blithering fool for that, but hey, it's my money. Both do their jobs equally well (well, the Jetstreams are clearly better actually ;-) Cheers, I don't think any one is criticising, just making the point that his finding on the WOB of the KISS sugest that the units were not idealy set up. Possably the same person who owned the KISS also owned the Sport Kiss and they were set up for the lung capacity of a mouse. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 09:05	#26 (permalink)
PhilSiswick WSKD 0001 Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 922	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I don't think any one is criticising, just making the point that his finding on the WOB of the KISS sugest that the units were not idealy set up. Possably the same person who owned the KISS also owned the Sport Kiss and they were set up for the lung capacity of a mouse. ATB Mark Chase Hi Mark, Fair points. It was the 20p comment that really bothered me - what's the point in posting opinions if people are just going to argue from that point of view? No reflection on you - I've always found you very helpful. The TravelFrame is excellent BTW - thanks. Cheers, __________________ Phil No comment on open circuit... it's an evolutionary dead end not really worth discussing here. Dave Sutton, 2007 I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 11:23	#27 (permalink)
CharlieT Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 449	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) The guy's as entitled as anyone else to express his views on this site. A complete newbie has the opportunity to try a whole lot of units, why not? Why try to shut him down? No one has to agree with his opinions. Why take a newbie's comments of a 10 min try dive seriously? If we're too hard on those who start threads, why should they post another? Let's welcome him into the Rebreather World community and enjoy the fact that he's another rebreather diver. It's a good thing I'd paid for my unit before my 1st Rebreather dive I hated the 1st 10 minutes. Charlie
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 13:33	#28 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 497	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Thanks for the report and subsequent comments everybody. I'm off to Minnesota to try a few units myself tomorrow, I'll report afterwards. __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
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27th February 2007, 13:51	#29 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,558	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) Hi Mark, It was the 20p comment that really bothered me - what's the point in posting opinions if people are just going to argue from that point of view? Cheers, Ohhh good call, I missed that comment. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

27th February 2007, 13:55	#30 (permalink)
Monkey Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lauderdale By The Sea Florida Posts: 400	Re: Tried Meg, Kiss, Sport Kiss, Inspiration and Evolution. (First Time on Loop) Here is what I have learned from this thread...... 1: I NEED TO TRY A PROPERLY SET UP KISS CLASSIC AND KISS SPORT... 2: The 20P remark shows he has an emotional connection to his machine, and that’s the guy I want to get in the water with. His heart is in it... and that good. Do you really want to go deep with the guy who hearts into needle point? I also learned I was not clear enough it letting this group understand one simple thing.. I welcome heavy criticism.... being politically correct and diplomatic in my book means it going to take me 10 times as long to get the information I need to keep me alive... I know nothing.. I have no time in the water on the loop.... please smack me down when I talk out my ass you will end up saving my life. I read some where on this board a quote that I have posted on the door of my wet room where I keep all my SCUBA Gear.. "Its a shame that stupidity is not painful" so guys I am asking for your personal opinions.. Just because I am highly opinionated does not mean I am not willing to change my opinions or learn. Lean something. Is that not what we are all here to do? So witch one of you KISS people is going to offer up another test drive? BAM
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