Cell Linearity

AD_ward9 · 20th November 2006, 10:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by NickK)

That is really strange, but bad taste disappears when PPO2 goes down. So, you saying that sensors looks ok to dive. They really looks stable, what worried me, inability to get ~ 1.6 at 20 ft. Maybe because an altitude?

Would be very interested to know when AII sensors with SMB connector will be available. Please let us know. Price is right, but more important when they have better parameters.

Thank you for you help Alex.

Cheers,
Nick

On PPO2 of 1.6, try again at 40ft. The CNS clock goes to zero almost instantly at that PPO2s over 1.6. Personally, so long as the ceiling is 0.2 more than the PPO2 I use in the dive, I am OK with the sensor.

I'll post when the AII sensors are available with the SMB connector. They performed consistently much better than the R22Ds and 2BUD2s in the tests.

Alex

dave t · 20th November 2006, 11:01

Alex

any chance we can see the test data?

Andy M · 20th November 2006, 11:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap)

I and several of my buddies sometimes feel a metallic taste when going rapidly to a high PO2. Such as going from a low pO2 gas to ~100% O2 at ~6m. It does not seem to have anything to do with the equipment.

I have noticed this too on many occassions, including OC diving. My original hypothesis was that it was the aluminium oxide from the inside of my 100% stage. Its still there when diving CC, so I wondered if it was something to do with oxygen interacting with something on the tongue.

Andy

AD_ward9 · 20th November 2006, 11:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

Alex

any chance we can see the test data?

Sure. It is going through the process already of releasing it to the public domain (due to the NDAs with the companies involved). All have agreed in principle to publishing it. Should be out on this forum within 2 weeks.

Alex

jakelost · 20th November 2006, 12:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap)

I and several of my buddies sometimes feel a metallic taste when going rapidly to a high PO2. Such as going from a low pO2 gas to ~100% O2 at ~6m. It does not seem to have anything to do with the equipment.

JAAP , do you have any teeth fixed with Amalgam ?

jaap · 20th November 2006, 12:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by jakelost)

JAAP , do you have any teeth fixed with Amalgam ?

Think I have. They keep falling out though, so I'm unsure if a have any left

I'm only saying we have sometimes had that taste using a variety of gear. Different OC-regs, Rebreather, steel or Alu-cylinders.

Only common thing so far is the high O2. So do you have a theory that its Amalgam and O2 that makes the taste?

Genesis · 20th November 2006, 12:26

I've been able to "taste" that on high FO2 mixes (whether OC or CC) since I started diving. The first time I told someone I could "taste" oxygen they looked at me like I was from Mars.

Well, I still can, and it doesn't matter what sort of bottle it comes from - aluminum or steel. If its high FO2 I can detect it by taste.

Interestingly enough, I have a mouth full of amalgram fillings, many dating back to when I was a teen.... hmmm.....

I can also detect a characteristic odor from the scrubber chemicals. Same "taste" on the CCR that I can detect by smell if I sniff the open top of a keg of sorb.

Then again I've aborted dives due to a detected taste on the air that my buddy, who got HER tank filled off the SAME storage flask at the same time, said had no taste at all. When I took a whiff off HER bottle I could detect the same odor - but she swore the gas had no odor at all! So perhaps my "sniffer" is a bit more sensitive than most - I dunno....

jakelost · 20th November 2006, 12:28

Yes i have my own theory that a current i generated inside your mouth when you inhale high po2 gases..... but i design cuttingtools for a living so that theory might not be 100 %

Janos · 20th November 2006, 14:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by jakelost)

Yes i have my own theory that a current i generated inside your mouth when you inhale high po2 gases..... but i design cuttingtools for a living so that theory might not be 100 %

There was an artical in The New Scientist a few months back titled "21 senses" IIRC electrical sensation on the tongue was one of these.

Janos

PacketSniffer · 20th November 2006, 14:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

In testing an Inspo recently, after a fatal accident, I witnessed a fault caused by either ESD or this Teledyne cell open damage. I would not recommend Teledyne cells because of this issue alone. Just take apart something where you have used Teledynes for several years and see if the pcb is corroded or the sensor is wet (be careful: it is extremely caustic).
Alex

Alex,

This is a very interesting discussion going on here. Help me understand something though. Are you saying that you don't recommend Teledyne O2 cells for any rebreather, not just the Inspiration? If so, what cells do you recommend that are currently on the market today (for any rebreather). I understand from your statements that in the future, AI will have something that meets your approval. Is this correct? Will there be something to replace the Teledyne R22D for example?

Cheers

20th November 2006, 10:53	#41 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,862	Re: Cell Linearity Quote: (Originally Posted by NickK) That is really strange, but bad taste disappears when PPO2 goes down. So, you saying that sensors looks ok to dive. They really looks stable, what worried me, inability to get ~ 1.6 at 20 ft. Maybe because an altitude? Would be very interested to know when AII sensors with SMB connector will be available. Please let us know. Price is right, but more important when they have better parameters. Thank you for you help Alex. Cheers, Nick On PPO2 of 1.6, try again at 40ft. The CNS clock goes to zero almost instantly at that PPO2s over 1.6. Personally, so long as the ceiling is 0.2 more than the PPO2 I use in the dive, I am OK with the sensor. I'll post when the AII sensors are available with the SMB connector. They performed consistently much better than the R22Ds and 2BUD2s in the tests. Alex
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20th November 2006, 11:01	#42 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 654	Re: Cell Linearity Alex any chance we can see the test data?
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20th November 2006, 11:30	#43 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 422	Re: Cell Linearity Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap) I and several of my buddies sometimes feel a metallic taste when going rapidly to a high PO2. Such as going from a low pO2 gas to ~100% O2 at ~6m. It does not seem to have anything to do with the equipment. I have noticed this too on many occassions, including OC diving. My original hypothesis was that it was the aluminium oxide from the inside of my 100% stage. Its still there when diving CC, so I wondered if it was something to do with oxygen interacting with something on the tongue. Andy __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
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20th November 2006, 11:34	#44 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,862	Re: Cell Linearity Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) Alex any chance we can see the test data? Sure. It is going through the process already of releasing it to the public domain (due to the NDAs with the companies involved). All have agreed in principle to publishing it. Should be out on this forum within 2 weeks. Alex
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20th November 2006, 12:02	#45 (permalink)
jakelost New Member Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 23	Re: Cell Linearity Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap) I and several of my buddies sometimes feel a metallic taste when going rapidly to a high PO2. Such as going from a low pO2 gas to ~100% O2 at ~6m. It does not seem to have anything to do with the equipment. JAAP , do you have any teeth fixed with Amalgam ? __________________ Soaring With The Eagles At Night To Rise With The Pigs In The Morning
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20th November 2006, 12:21	#46 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 451	Re: Cell Linearity Quote: (Originally Posted by jakelost) JAAP , do you have any teeth fixed with Amalgam ? Think I have. They keep falling out though, so I'm unsure if a have any left I'm only saying we have sometimes had that taste using a variety of gear. Different OC-regs, Rebreather, steel or Alu-cylinders. Only common thing so far is the high O2. So do you have a theory that its Amalgam and O2 that makes the taste? __________________ My initials: JAAP
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20th November 2006, 12:26	#47 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,395	Re: Cell Linearity I've been able to "taste" that on high FO2 mixes (whether OC or CC) since I started diving. The first time I told someone I could "taste" oxygen they looked at me like I was from Mars. Well, I still can, and it doesn't matter what sort of bottle it comes from - aluminum or steel. If its high FO2 I can detect it by taste. Interestingly enough, I have a mouth full of amalgram fillings, many dating back to when I was a teen.... hmmm..... I can also detect a characteristic odor from the scrubber chemicals. Same "taste" on the CCR that I can detect by smell if I sniff the open top of a keg of sorb. Then again I've aborted dives due to a detected taste on the air that my buddy, who got HER tank filled off the SAME storage flask at the same time, said had no taste at all. When I took a whiff off HER bottle I could detect the same odor - but she swore the gas had no odor at all! So perhaps my "sniffer" is a bit more sensitive than most - I dunno.... __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket Last edited by Genesis : 20th November 2006 at 12:29.
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20th November 2006, 12:28	#48 (permalink)
jakelost New Member Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 23	Re: Cell Linearity Yes i have my own theory that a current i generated inside your mouth when you inhale high po2 gases..... but i design cuttingtools for a living so that theory might not be 100 % __________________ Soaring With The Eagles At Night To Rise With The Pigs In The Morning Last edited by jakelost : 20th November 2006 at 12:31.
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20th November 2006, 14:00	#49 (permalink)
Janos "Two Sheds" Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: East Surrey Posts: 598	Re: Cell Linearity Quote: (Originally Posted by jakelost) Yes i have my own theory that a current i generated inside your mouth when you inhale high po2 gases..... but i design cuttingtools for a living so that theory might not be 100 % There was an artical in The New Scientist a few months back titled "21 senses" IIRC electrical sensation on the tongue was one of these. Janos __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed
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20th November 2006, 14:48	#50 (permalink)
PacketSniffer ~~~~~ #417 ~~~~~ Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 437	Re: Cell Linearity Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) In testing an Inspo recently, after a fatal accident, I witnessed a fault caused by either ESD or this Teledyne cell open damage. I would not recommend Teledyne cells because of this issue alone. Just take apart something where you have used Teledynes for several years and see if the pcb is corroded or the sensor is wet (be careful: it is extremely caustic). Alex Alex, This is a very interesting discussion going on here. Help me understand something though. Are you saying that you don't recommend Teledyne O2 cells for any rebreather, not just the Inspiration? If so, what cells do you recommend that are currently on the market today (for any rebreather). I understand from your statements that in the future, AI will have something that meets your approval. Is this correct? Will there be something to replace the Teledyne R22D for example? Cheers __________________ Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory or defeat.
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