O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE!

Crazyduck · 16th November 2006, 22:41

If we are assigning blame then I am to be included in this…

It did seem to me that it was a pitch for the website and after visiting the site- there is a lot to see. I was wrong.
I have been wanting reports on the UHMS and there is a lot of that- thank you.

Gene, welcome to the group and please no hard feeling sir.
It’s hard sometimes to get the emotion of a posting and sometimes we get ahead of ourselves- I sure did that.

Hopefully, we can use your site as a reference point and that would be an excellent addition to this articulate group.

I appricate Heather’s candor and speaking her mind with the group.

Anne Marie- To apologize is a personal process. Everyone holds themselves to a standard of honesty, respect and virtue. Ron has never been but the most giving person to my friends and the people that we have kept good company with. He holds himself to a very high standard and while not spilling his guts on this web page he did say he was sorry. And that in itself was what was asked for.
For such a brilliant, talented and dazzlingly beautiful woman you have such a sharp and vexing tongue. Please give love to others as you would want to be loved yourself. If you could find an ounce of humility it would provide you ages of passion and friendship. Your thoughts and ideas are very important to me; but that tongue is wicked as any creature that has walked in the night. Please,... I want to hear what you have to say I just don’t want my ears to bleed. Have a nice evening and I hope the weekend is very relaxing.

Regards to all, Andrew

AM · 16th November 2006, 23:47

Andrew

I hardly consider myself "as wicked as any creature in the night" for daring to speak my mind on an internet forum!! Wicked might constitute a terrorist or indeed perpetrator of other such heinous crime, but in my view, doesn't quite extend to a random comment on the world wide web, sorry! Equally, I am not looking for love on the internet, just valid discussions thanks!

Just because I have a propensity for logic based argument as opposed to emotion-based argument does not afford me any lack of humility, nor indeed passion or friends, I assure you.

No matter how you may wish to dress this up, some rather ungracious comments were made to our colleague Gene and a ratherly poorly constituted apology followed. I am just as entitled to express my opinion as anyone else is. If that makes me "sharp", "vexing" or "wicked" then indeed I am guilty on all three!

Asking someone to pay sponsorship fees when they are going out of their way to share valuable information is frankly, not a demonstration of any such "high standard" that you speak of.

Indeed your denigration of my character, this being your first ever dialogue with me, is indeed reflective of your own value set. My word, referring to others as "wicked" that you have never even so much as said hello to, is simply staggering.

It would serve your own humility well to realise that your own personal attack on me is entirely unwarranted. I was not rude in my post nor did I insult anyone. I merely made a fair, factual comment without attacking anyone's character. I would appreciate if you could expedite your own discursions in a similar fashion.

Can we get back on topic now!

Regards

AnneMarie

Gene_Hobbs · 17th November 2006, 01:26

First, thank you for all the kind words and support of our work. It has been nice to see a few donations come in.

While I may never understand why someone would not think that the information collected in the "Evaluation of Analytical Industries Inc. Model Number PSR-11-33-NM Oxygen Sensors for Use With the MK 16 MOD 1 Underwater Breathing Apparatus" would not be pertinent in answering the question of:

Quote: (Originally Posted by narked at 90)

any other info we need any one?

It is also not my place to force my opinion that the fields on page 8 or 12 of that pdf would be a good format for display of information collected by individuals here or that the graphs put together on page(s) 14 - 20 would be easy for display of information from dives after a failure. Continuity of data in a "failure mode analysis" must just be something I pick up from my background and looking past the data in the boxes to the methods in which they were collected a function of my environment. The beauty of forums like this to me has always been in the different backgrounds of people posting. I guess I need to start explaining WHY I feel things are relevant in the future instead of assuming that people will take information for the sake of information.

Either way, let's please try not to beat each other up and get back to the matter at hand which should be education. (And please, if you don't understand why I post something I think is relevant, please ask. I don't mind explaining my point of view as long as you don't mind explaining yours)

Crazyduck · 21st November 2006, 19:24

Has anyone ever created a database of oxygen cells actual lifespan?

Would it be possible for a GUI interface for members to enter their cells and the lifespan they have lasted? It would have a serious of blanks for the members to enter the appropriate information.
Manufacture (pull down menu) model (pull down menu) and then the same for date start, date finish, starting voltage, ending voltage, highest spike, and 2 lines for comments.

Do we have enough members to generate statistical output or look for a deviation at certain points? Any interest?

If nothing else we could provide a real world output for our users.
This process could be used for batteries in rebreathers also.

Andrew

Genesis · 21st November 2006, 21:20

I'm seeing some odd stuff in the three R22s that I got from DiveRiteExpress about 10 months ago.... one is definitely getting "slow" although both will still validate and calibrate ok. That's terrible life compared to what I've seen from sensors in "land-based" use as verification of mixes, but whether its "reasonable" or "awful" in the Rebreather context I can't say.

I've ordered some AII sensors and we'll see how they compare.

dive2dive2000 · 22nd November 2006, 01:24

There are a few threads about O2 sensors and a lot of posts with so much info my head is spinning

My PRISM uses a high output sensor 16-22Mv if it is producing the proper Mv output say 18Mv does this mean it may not read above a 1.6 PPO2 and I need to do further testing

AD_ward9 · 22nd November 2006, 07:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

There are a few threads about O2 sensors and a lot of posts with so much info my head is spinning

My PRISM uses a high output sensor 16-22Mv if it is producing the proper Mv output say 18Mv does this mean it may not read above a 1.6 PPO2 and I need to do further testing

Simple answer is yes.

The output in air tells you nothing about what the output will be at 1.6 PPO2, when the cell fails. Generally cells fail with a ceiling fault, so you need to test cells work above the PPO2 you are actually using (I use a PPO2 of 0.2 if doing it manually).

Just inject a little O2 at the start of your dive, at say 30ft, to see that all the cells work at a higher PPO2 level than you have set.
Cheers,

Alex

dive2dive2000 · 22nd November 2006, 18:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

Simple answer is yes.

The output in air tells you nothing about what the output will be at 1.6 PPO2, when the cell fails. Generally cells fail with a ceiling fault, so you need to test cells work above the PPO2 you are actually using (I use a PPO2 of 0.2 if doing it manually).

Just inject a little O2 at the start of your dive, at say 30ft, to see that all the cells work at a higher PPO2 level than you have set.
Cheers,

Alex

I do... thanks

Sponge-Bob · 29th November 2006, 23:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by DonalWalsh)

Is this why I can't get a R22D for love nor money at the moment???

Hi,
This company has a good source of cells. They specialise in them and ship worldwide.

vandagraph.co.uk

You have probably heard of them already.

I took delivery of 2 x R22D today. They were on the shelf ready to go, vacuum sealed dated G6.

Hope this is of help

16th November 2006, 22:41	#31 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 711	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! If we are assigning blame then I am to be included in this… It did seem to me that it was a pitch for the website and after visiting the site- there is a lot to see. I was wrong. I have been wanting reports on the UHMS and there is a lot of that- thank you. Gene, welcome to the group and please no hard feeling sir. It’s hard sometimes to get the emotion of a posting and sometimes we get ahead of ourselves- I sure did that. Hopefully, we can use your site as a reference point and that would be an excellent addition to this articulate group. I appricate Heather’s candor and speaking her mind with the group. Anne Marie- To apologize is a personal process. Everyone holds themselves to a standard of honesty, respect and virtue. Ron has never been but the most giving person to my friends and the people that we have kept good company with. He holds himself to a very high standard and while not spilling his guts on this web page he did say he was sorry. And that in itself was what was asked for. For such a brilliant, talented and dazzlingly beautiful woman you have such a sharp and vexing tongue. Please give love to others as you would want to be loved yourself. If you could find an ounce of humility it would provide you ages of passion and friendship. Your thoughts and ideas are very important to me; but that tongue is wicked as any creature that has walked in the night. Please,... I want to hear what you have to say I just don’t want my ears to bleed. Have a nice evening and I hope the weekend is very relaxing. Regards to all, Andrew __________________ Howdy Senor- What’s Happening! Rob Davie April 2005- Presently in a state of transition from Open Circuit to Closed Circuit. "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by it." - Buddha.
(Offline)

16th November 2006, 23:47	#32 (permalink)
AM In love with the big blue Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Earth. Posts: 643	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! Andrew I hardly consider myself "as wicked as any creature in the night" for daring to speak my mind on an internet forum!! Wicked might constitute a terrorist or indeed perpetrator of other such heinous crime, but in my view, doesn't quite extend to a random comment on the world wide web, sorry! Equally, I am not looking for love on the internet, just valid discussions thanks! Just because I have a propensity for logic based argument as opposed to emotion-based argument does not afford me any lack of humility, nor indeed passion or friends, I assure you. No matter how you may wish to dress this up, some rather ungracious comments were made to our colleague Gene and a ratherly poorly constituted apology followed. I am just as entitled to express my opinion as anyone else is. If that makes me "sharp", "vexing" or "wicked" then indeed I am guilty on all three! Asking someone to pay sponsorship fees when they are going out of their way to share valuable information is frankly, not a demonstration of any such "high standard" that you speak of. Indeed your denigration of my character, this being your first ever dialogue with me, is indeed reflective of your own value set. My word, referring to others as "wicked" that you have never even so much as said hello to, is simply staggering. It would serve your own humility well to realise that your own personal attack on me is entirely unwarranted. I was not rude in my post nor did I insult anyone. I merely made a fair, factual comment without attacking anyone's character. I would appreciate if you could expedite your own discursions in a similar fashion. Can we get back on topic now! Regards AnneMarie __________________ Attitude keeps you alive Last edited by AM : 17th November 2006 at 00:17.
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17th November 2006, 01:26	#33 (permalink)
Gene_Hobbs Resident bibliophile Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Durham, NC, USA Posts: 122	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! First, thank you for all the kind words and support of our work. It has been nice to see a few donations come in. While I may never understand why someone would not think that the information collected in the "Evaluation of Analytical Industries Inc. Model Number PSR-11-33-NM Oxygen Sensors for Use With the MK 16 MOD 1 Underwater Breathing Apparatus" would not be pertinent in answering the question of: Quote: (Originally Posted by narked at 90) any other info we need any one? It is also not my place to force my opinion that the fields on page 8 or 12 of that pdf would be a good format for display of information collected by individuals here or that the graphs put together on page(s) 14 - 20 would be easy for display of information from dives after a failure. Continuity of data in a "failure mode analysis" must just be something I pick up from my background and looking past the data in the boxes to the methods in which they were collected a function of my environment. The beauty of forums like this to me has always been in the different backgrounds of people posting. I guess I need to start explaining WHY I feel things are relevant in the future instead of assuming that people will take information for the sake of information. Either way, let's please try not to beat each other up and get back to the matter at hand which should be education. (And please, if you don't understand why I post something I think is relevant, please ask. I don't mind explaining my point of view as long as you don't mind explaining yours) __________________ http://rubicon-foundation.org/ Home of the Rubicon Research Repository. For help getting started with the Repository, please visit our FAQ page. PLEASE support our work. "Oxygen is addictive and deadly. Everyone who uses it will eventually die" --RW Hamilton, PhD 1991
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21st November 2006, 19:24	#34 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 711	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! Has anyone ever created a database of oxygen cells actual lifespan? Would it be possible for a GUI interface for members to enter their cells and the lifespan they have lasted? It would have a serious of blanks for the members to enter the appropriate information. Manufacture (pull down menu) model (pull down menu) and then the same for date start, date finish, starting voltage, ending voltage, highest spike, and 2 lines for comments. Do we have enough members to generate statistical output or look for a deviation at certain points? Any interest? If nothing else we could provide a real world output for our users. This process could be used for batteries in rebreathers also. Andrew __________________ Howdy Senor- What’s Happening! Rob Davie April 2005- Presently in a state of transition from Open Circuit to Closed Circuit. "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by it." - Buddha.
(Offline)

21st November 2006, 21:20	#35 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,397	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! I'm seeing some odd stuff in the three R22s that I got from DiveRiteExpress about 10 months ago.... one is definitely getting "slow" although both will still validate and calibrate ok. That's terrible life compared to what I've seen from sensors in "land-based" use as verification of mixes, but whether its "reasonable" or "awful" in the Rebreather context I can't say. I've ordered some AII sensors and we'll see how they compare. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
(Online)

22nd November 2006, 01:24	#36 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! There are a few threads about O2 sensors and a lot of posts with so much info my head is spinning My PRISM uses a high output sensor 16-22Mv if it is producing the proper Mv output say 18Mv does this mean it may not read above a 1.6 PPO2 and I need to do further testing __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
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22nd November 2006, 07:29	#37 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,875	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) There are a few threads about O2 sensors and a lot of posts with so much info my head is spinning My PRISM uses a high output sensor 16-22Mv if it is producing the proper Mv output say 18Mv does this mean it may not read above a 1.6 PPO2 and I need to do further testing Simple answer is yes. The output in air tells you nothing about what the output will be at 1.6 PPO2, when the cell fails. Generally cells fail with a ceiling fault, so you need to test cells work above the PPO2 you are actually using (I use a PPO2 of 0.2 if doing it manually). Just inject a little O2 at the start of your dive, at say 30ft, to see that all the cells work at a higher PPO2 level than you have set. Cheers, Alex
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22nd November 2006, 18:54	#38 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) Simple answer is yes. The output in air tells you nothing about what the output will be at 1.6 PPO2, when the cell fails. Generally cells fail with a ceiling fault, so you need to test cells work above the PPO2 you are actually using (I use a PPO2 of 0.2 if doing it manually). Just inject a little O2 at the start of your dive, at say 30ft, to see that all the cells work at a higher PPO2 level than you have set. Cheers, Alex I do... thanks __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
(Offline)

29th November 2006, 23:07	#39 (permalink)
Sponge-Bob New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Ray Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 29	Re: O2 sensors - What you DON'T KNOW - FAILURE! Quote: (Originally Posted by DonalWalsh) Is this why I can't get a R22D for love nor money at the moment??? Hi, This company has a good source of cells. They specialise in them and ship worldwide. vandagraph.co.uk You have probably heard of them already. I took delivery of 2 x R22D today. They were on the shelf ready to go, vacuum sealed dated G6. Hope this is of help __________________ If you want a Guarantee.....Buy a toaster!
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