Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall

decoweenie · 18th November 2007, 04:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

We also expect to get sensors sent to us that were sold by others (we already have). It's not a problem, we've made provisions for that and are willing to exchange yours or anyone elses that are from the suspect lots regardless where you purchased them.

I have only made one business transaction with DRE last year when I made the trip to the US, and was very impressed with the level of service.

But the statement above solidifies my feeling, and I will certainly give my business to DRE in the future.

Good job, Mark. That's the way to run a successful business!

PeteS · 18th November 2007, 07:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

On a related note: I cant help but worry that as Rebreather World has now metamorphisised into a real commercial business that this could put pressure on the board/business owners to put restictions in place that actually doesnt do us (the people who enable the forum/business) any favours - perhaps your hinting at a case in point here....I hope my concerns are proven wrong - guess time will tell. Its going to be increasingly quite a challenge I should imagine for the board owners/business owners to try to balance the two

The creation of a rebreather industry 'monopoly' could be very bad for the industry and users alike - To avoid that the board is going to have to retain some degree of independance or at least flexibility seperating the sizeable and growing commercial considerations from the openess and pseudo independance of the forum.

I do hope that the "powers that be" manage to carry out this Rebreather World v RBWS balancing act. At the very least there could be some conflict of interest. When I first started reading and posting on this site I felt as though it was RBW/us and then there were retailers/manufacturers. It could easily slip over so the RBW through RBWS becomes one of the groups that used to be "them" as opposed to "us". And then where will "us" be?

Anyway, Dive Rite Express seem to have reacted correctly to this problem and AI don't. Yet.

diverreb · 18th November 2007, 07:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime)

Could you perhaps explain why not all customers who bought cells got such an email? I bought cells in March so perhaps you didn't look that far back but being a customer that bought cells from you I'd have liked to be aware of the situation.

I would imagine it's because the cells in question were produced a few months after you bought yours......

Richie

dave t · 18th November 2007, 08:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I wasnt aware untill now that was one factor in your reasoning.

Do we know if the tests APD do will catch all faults (such as non linear temp compensation)?

cheers
Mike

I think so Mike, I will talk with Martin on Monday and find out exactly how they test.
A few years ago there was a debate about if there was a difference between r22d and r22bud. well for a little while there was and it was the placement of the temp compensator, from the testing that AP did they recommended the it was moved. this change took a little while to filter into the mainstream r22d's so now they are the same EXCEPT if you buy one from a supplier other than AP it probably wont be tested.
Shouldnt all manufacturers (of cells and rebreathers) test their cells and give a report with each one? Damm it they cost enough!

Its good to see one other Rebreather builder has taken up a cell testing regime,
well done Paul!!

Dave

***schford*** · 18th November 2007, 09:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

On a related note: I cant help but worry that as Rebreather World has now metamorphisised into a real commercial business that this could put pressure on the board/business owners to put restictions in place that actually doesnt do us (the people who enable the forum/business) any favours - perhaps your hinting at a case in point here....I hope my concerns are proven wrong - guess time will tell. Its going to be increasingly quite a challenge I should imagine for the board owners/business owners to try to balance the two

Nah Mark is tugging my plonker as we can not agree on a rate for advertising and as you know we don't let commercial posts on without being a site sponsor.

I am sure he is well aware that we certainly would not object to any sort of recall notice but as a good business man isn't letting the opportunity pass him by to tug my tail.

Rebreather World will always be my baby and the community comes first and is a totally seperate entity from the store (My company which owns RBW, owns a minority share in the store).

Stuart

onetime · 18th November 2007, 19:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

I would imagine it's because the cells in question were produced a few months after you bought yours......

Richie

That's what I'd imagine too (hence me saying perhaps they didn't go back farther

). But in a case like this, as a customer, it's a situation that I believe ALL purchasers should have been made aware of in case the situation isn't as limited as first thought.

Certainly the minimum responsible thing to do was to contact those customers they knew bought cells during that period (as they did). But the "right" thing to do, in my opinion, would be to contact all customers who purchased cells so that they're aware of the potential problem and that they should check their cell serial numbers.

Of course, my opinion is also that the resellers of the cells should have made a post here at Rebreather World to let as many Rebreather divers as possible know of the issue. After all it is a potentially life threatening situation. But perhaps my expectations are too high.

Gobfish1 · 18th November 2007, 20:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime)

That's what I'd imagine too (hence me saying perhaps they didn't go back farther

). But in a case like this, as a customer, it's a situation that I believe ALL purchasers should have been made aware of in case the situation isn't as limited as first thought.

Certainly the minimum responsible thing to do was to contact those customers they knew bought cells during that period (as they did). But the "right" thing to do, in my opinion, would be to contact all customers who purchased cells so that they're aware of the potential problem and that they should check their cell serial numbers.

Of course, my opinion is also that the resellers of the cells should have made a post here at Rebreather World to let as many Rebreather divers as possible know of the issue. After all it is a potentially life threatening situation. But perhaps my expectations are too high.

teksimple · 19th November 2007, 07:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime)

my opinion is also that the resellers of the cells should have made a post here at Rebreather World to let as many Rebreather divers as possible know of the issue. After all it is a potentially life threatening situation. But perhaps my expectations are too high.

On November 10th, I posted that fact that more than 10% of all AII cells I sold had failed, according to the customer. In fact, that number was skewed because there was an even greater than 10% failure rate in the last few batches that CCRsense sold. In hindsight, I should have made a clearer post that warned the potential for problems, and for that I am very sorry.

Once again, it is my hope that manufacturers will fully disclose their premature cell degradation rates. I expect that will never happen, so the only option is for the resellers to do so. If I was not out of business, I would be inclined to generate a rolling real-time failure rate graph with PHP/PNG right out of my store's MySQL database.

I will offer PHP coding services--at no charge--to any reseller who is interested in disclosing cell failure rates.

Gobfish1 · 19th November 2007, 07:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

I did feel Dive Rite Express, (the name on the label of the cell) and who does deal with the retail public, did have a responsibility to it's customers, which is why I sent the e-mail. You are welcome.

eratic behaviors with some of these oxygen sensors. Upon investigation Analytical Industries determined the cause was a change in their manufacturing process that began in June 2007.

june to mid november

good work lads ,,,

Jack · 19th November 2007, 10:54

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/cells...tml#post149741

OK, here`s how I see this. I asked a question of Barrie, that some here have taken as a point scoring excercise. Not true. If the manufacturers were notified as far back as 6 months ago about a 10%+ failure rate, what did they do? The resellers act on good faith. What % do the manufacturers think is an acceptable failure rate?
10%?
Lets take that figure. Lets assume Inspiration is the only ccr out there with 1,000 units. Thats 3,000 cells. Thats 300 failed cells, or maybe 100 units with cell problems. Lets say 5%, thats 150 cells or 50 units. Lets say 1 %, thats 30 cells or 10 units. None of these figures are acceptable IMO. The end user should have average failure % info with any cell purchased . CCR divers should have this info as the norm, not as is happening here, being distributed on a forum. Maybe this info could have been useful. So I`ll ask:
anyone else(resellers) report to manufacturers re cell failure? When was it reported? What was the reply? Any incidents involving cells after reporting said info? If this upsets anyone on here,I`m sorry. IMHO, this info should be in the open.

18th November 2007, 04:46	#61 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) We also expect to get sensors sent to us that were sold by others (we already have). It's not a problem, we've made provisions for that and are willing to exchange yours or anyone elses that are from the suspect lots regardless where you purchased them. I have only made one business transaction with DRE last year when I made the trip to the US, and was very impressed with the level of service. But the statement above solidifies my feeling, and I will certainly give my business to DRE in the future. Good job, Mark. That's the way to run a successful business!
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 07:10	#62 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 515	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) On a related note: I cant help but worry that as Rebreather World has now metamorphisised into a real commercial business that this could put pressure on the board/business owners to put restictions in place that actually doesnt do us (the people who enable the forum/business) any favours - perhaps your hinting at a case in point here....I hope my concerns are proven wrong - guess time will tell. Its going to be increasingly quite a challenge I should imagine for the board owners/business owners to try to balance the two The creation of a rebreather industry 'monopoly' could be very bad for the industry and users alike - To avoid that the board is going to have to retain some degree of independance or at least flexibility seperating the sizeable and growing commercial considerations from the openess and pseudo independance of the forum. I do hope that the "powers that be" manage to carry out this Rebreather World v RBWS balancing act. At the very least there could be some conflict of interest. When I first started reading and posting on this site I felt as though it was RBW/us and then there were retailers/manufacturers. It could easily slip over so the RBW through RBWS becomes one of the groups that used to be "them" as opposed to "us". And then where will "us" be? Anyway, Dive Rite Express seem to have reacted correctly to this problem and AI don't. Yet. __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 07:24	#63 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 568	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime) Could you perhaps explain why not all customers who bought cells got such an email? I bought cells in March so perhaps you didn't look that far back but being a customer that bought cells from you I'd have liked to be aware of the situation. I would imagine it's because the cells in question were produced a few months after you bought yours...... Richie
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 08:53	#64 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 654	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I wasnt aware untill now that was one factor in your reasoning. Do we know if the tests APD do will catch all faults (such as non linear temp compensation)? cheers Mike I think so Mike, I will talk with Martin on Monday and find out exactly how they test. A few years ago there was a debate about if there was a difference between r22d and r22bud. well for a little while there was and it was the placement of the temp compensator, from the testing that AP did they recommended the it was moved. this change took a little while to filter into the mainstream r22d's so now they are the same EXCEPT if you buy one from a supplier other than AP it probably wont be tested. Shouldnt all manufacturers (of cells and rebreathers) test their cells and give a report with each one? Damm it they cost enough! Its good to see one other Rebreather builder has taken up a cell testing regime, well done Paul!! Dave
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 09:48	#65 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,674	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) On a related note: I cant help but worry that as Rebreather World has now metamorphisised into a real commercial business that this could put pressure on the board/business owners to put restictions in place that actually doesnt do us (the people who enable the forum/business) any favours - perhaps your hinting at a case in point here....I hope my concerns are proven wrong - guess time will tell. Its going to be increasingly quite a challenge I should imagine for the board owners/business owners to try to balance the two Nah Mark is tugging my plonker as we can not agree on a rate for advertising and as you know we don't let commercial posts on without being a site sponsor. I am sure he is well aware that we certainly would not object to any sort of recall notice but as a good business man isn't letting the opportunity pass him by to tug my tail. Rebreather World will always be my baby and the community comes first and is a totally seperate entity from the store (My company which owns RBW, owns a minority share in the store). Stuart __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 19:50	#66 (permalink)
onetime Classic KISSer #138 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: US, NJ Posts: 673	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) I would imagine it's because the cells in question were produced a few months after you bought yours...... Richie That's what I'd imagine too (hence me saying perhaps they didn't go back farther ). But in a case like this, as a customer, it's a situation that I believe ALL purchasers should have been made aware of in case the situation isn't as limited as first thought. Certainly the minimum responsible thing to do was to contact those customers they knew bought cells during that period (as they did). But the "right" thing to do, in my opinion, would be to contact all customers who purchased cells so that they're aware of the potential problem and that they should check their cell serial numbers. Of course, my opinion is also that the resellers of the cells should have made a post here at Rebreather World to let as many Rebreather divers as possible know of the issue. After all it is a potentially life threatening situation. But perhaps my expectations are too high.
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 20:04	#67 (permalink)
Gobfish1 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 369	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime) That's what I'd imagine too (hence me saying perhaps they didn't go back farther ). But in a case like this, as a customer, it's a situation that I believe ALL purchasers should have been made aware of in case the situation isn't as limited as first thought. Certainly the minimum responsible thing to do was to contact those customers they knew bought cells during that period (as they did). But the "right" thing to do, in my opinion, would be to contact all customers who purchased cells so that they're aware of the potential problem and that they should check their cell serial numbers. Of course, my opinion is also that the resellers of the cells should have made a post here at Rebreather World to let as many Rebreather divers as possible know of the issue. After all it is a potentially life threatening situation. But perhaps my expectations are too high. __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3
(Offline)

19th November 2007, 07:03	#68 (permalink)
teksimple Enlightened Alpinist Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back in Hawaii Posts: 496	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime) my opinion is also that the resellers of the cells should have made a post here at Rebreather World to let as many Rebreather divers as possible know of the issue. After all it is a potentially life threatening situation. But perhaps my expectations are too high. On November 10th, I posted that fact that more than 10% of all AII cells I sold had failed, according to the customer. In fact, that number was skewed because there was an even greater than 10% failure rate in the last few batches that CCRsense sold. In hindsight, I should have made a clearer post that warned the potential for problems, and for that I am very sorry. Once again, it is my hope that manufacturers will fully disclose their premature cell degradation rates. I expect that will never happen, so the only option is for the resellers to do so. If I was not out of business, I would be inclined to generate a rolling real-time failure rate graph with PHP/PNG right out of my store's MySQL database. I will offer PHP coding services--at no charge--to any reseller who is interested in disclosing cell failure rates. __________________ ---- _____________ "I don't know the percentage of the Internet that's valid, do you? Jesus, it's scary." - Hunter S. Thompson
(Offline)

19th November 2007, 07:29	#69 (permalink)
Gobfish1 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 369	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) I did feel Dive Rite Express, (the name on the label of the cell) and who does deal with the retail public, did have a responsibility to it's customers, which is why I sent the e-mail. You are welcome. eratic behaviors with some of these oxygen sensors. Upon investigation Analytical Industries determined the cause was a change in their manufacturing process that began in June 2007. june to mid november good work lads ,,, __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3 Last edited by Gobfish1 : 19th November 2007 at 07:34.
(Offline)

19th November 2007, 10:54	#70 (permalink)
Jack Easy Does It Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: ireland Posts: 7	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall http://www.rebreatherworld.com/cells...tml#post149741 OK, here`s how I see this. I asked a question of Barrie, that some here have taken as a point scoring excercise. Not true. If the manufacturers were notified as far back as 6 months ago about a 10%+ failure rate, what did they do? The resellers act on good faith. What % do the manufacturers think is an acceptable failure rate? 10%? Lets take that figure. Lets assume Inspiration is the only ccr out there with 1,000 units. Thats 3,000 cells. Thats 300 failed cells, or maybe 100 units with cell problems. Lets say 5%, thats 150 cells or 50 units. Lets say 1 %, thats 30 cells or 10 units. None of these figures are acceptable IMO. The end user should have average failure % info with any cell purchased . CCR divers should have this info as the norm, not as is happening here, being distributed on a forum. Maybe this info could have been useful. So I`ll ask: anyone else(resellers) report to manufacturers re cell failure? When was it reported? What was the reply? Any incidents involving cells after reporting said info? If this upsets anyone on here,I`m sorry. IMHO, this info should be in the open. __________________ JACK www.dublinbaydiving.com
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode