Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall

Tino de Rijk · 17th November 2007, 21:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by heyydude)

I think that was me, from back in the 90's. (here with some modifications):

You get 1 Year from sensors if you store them in a pressure pot full of O2.
If you store them in a pressure pot full of Air, you get 12 months.
If you seal them in a bag full of Helium, you get 52 weeks.
If you seal them in a bag full of Helium, and store them in the fridge, you get 365 days.

Kevin.

Yep, it was you. Thanks, Kevin.

Mark Chase · 17th November 2007, 21:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gobfish1)

It seems to me that AI has no obligation or responsibility to issue any kind of 'recall notice' to the general public.

thats nice to know , THANKs .

It makes you sick dosent it.

ATB

Mark

Mark Chase · 17th November 2007, 21:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

I did feel Dive Rite Express, (the name on the label of the cell) and who does deal with the retail public, did have a responsibility to it's customers, which is why I sent the e-mail. You are welcome.

The sarcasm is uncalled for. Your attitude and response in this situation is appropriate AIs isn't.

This is life support equipment and a recall should have been issued generally. I am both great full to Rebreather World that I have been made aware, and a little angry that RBW Store customers wern't the first to know.

Thats the down side of having a retail organization associated with this web site. Anything bad that happens will reflect back on the site.

I got my AI cells via RBWS so that where we will be sending them for replacement.

ATB

Mark

Tecdiverfl · 17th November 2007, 21:57

I think Marc did the right thing. I had purchased a cell from him about 2 months ago. Sure enough I received an email warning me to stop using it. I wish other retailers and manufactures were as proactive as he has been in this situation. Turns out I had a batch of bad Teledyn sensors that failed out of the package. I never received notification from the retailer I bought them from. When I called them to tell them of the problem there response was email Teledyn and tell them of the problem.

gerstl_ossi · 17th November 2007, 22:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty)

The trouble with having cells individually tested by a reseller is that it requires the package to be broken, and therefore no longer stored in an inert atmosphere unless the resellers can set this up. The shelf life is therefore reduced, which may be an issue for "spare" cells.
What we really need is cells that are all individually tested by the manufacturer prior to sealing/sale. I'm assuming this doesn't happen already. Personally I would pay a premium for such cells.

I think also that this should be the right way. For the use in a live support system the manufacturer should test the cells and match them in groups of 2 ore 3 with the same millivolt output as a replacement set.

n2diving · 17th November 2007, 22:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Your attitude and response in this situation is appropriate AIs isn't.

This is life support equipment and a recall should have been issued generally. I am both great full to Rebreather World that I have been made aware, and a little angry that RBW Store customers wern't the first to know.

Thats the down side of having a retail organization associated with this web site. Anything bad that happens will reflect back on the site.

I got my AI cells via RBWS so that where we will be sending them for replacement.

ATB

Mark

We don't know what AI's response will be, there has not been enough time. Keep in mind this all happened just before the weekend, AI may have further plans for next week, I don't have any knowledge of what they plan to do or have done beyond their contact with me.

I don't think Rebreather World Store was particularly tardy or it's a reasonable expectation they should 'have it first', especially considering time zone differences. I considered posting on RBW but decided against it because I've been told by RBW not to post Dive Rite Express related content. It's a reasonable assumption that AI contacted their largest customer first on this issue and at least in my case they did so personally by telephone. We were able to quickly broadcast e-mail to our customers who bought sensors because we have order and inventory management technology which literally required only a few mouse clicks. We've also been telephoning and more e-mailing today, and have pretty much accounted for all of them. This whole thing has occurred within a matter of hours, not weeks.... seems extremely efficient to me.

We also expect to get sensors sent to us that were sold by others (we already have). It's not a problem, we've made provisions for that and are willing to exchange yours or anyone elses that are from the suspect lots regardless where you purchased them.

Drmike · 18th November 2007, 03:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

. Dr Mike and I have crossed swords before over this cell changing regime but I change all my cells together (unless one dies premature) because I buy them from Martin in the knowledge they have been tested

I wasnt aware untill now that was one factor in your reasoning.

Do we know if the tests APD do will catch all faults (such as non linear temp compensation)?

cheers
Mike

Drmike · 18th November 2007, 03:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Yep thats me and Janos. We took them to 72m yesterday

atb

Mark

Yeh and i took one to 140m this week

luckily it was on my BOB (only one cell) but was happy to use it semiclosed if i had to

Drmike · 18th November 2007, 03:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

. We were able to quickly broadcast e-mail to our customers who bought sensors because we have order and inventory management technology .

Hey Mark,

I think thats fine but the onus is then put soley on the distributor to inform their individual customers that there is an inssue. If the distributor doesnt do that for whatever reason then some users will miss these important safety notices.

I see no harm in OEMs issuing a blanket statement in parallel (to catch any users who were supplied by distributors who have for what ever reason not informed them) at the very least they should put a notice up on their website.

I didnt get mine from RBWs or from your good self - but for what ever reason the distributor I did get them from wasnt able to inform me of the issue before i read it on Rebreather World. Perhaps as you indicate this is because of the nature of the situation.

Either way I think the cell mnf need to do far more to improve their quality control and mnf processes because - clearly - they are f_cking hopeless.

On a related note: I cant help but worry that as Rebreather World has now metamorphisised into a real commercial business that this could put pressure on the board/business owners to put restictions in place that actually doesnt do us (the people who enable the forum/business) any favours - perhaps your hinting at a case in point here....I hope my concerns are proven wrong - guess time will tell. Its going to be increasingly quite a challenge I should imagine for the board owners/business owners to try to balance the two

The creation of a rebreather industry 'monopoly' could be very bad for the industry and users alike - To avoid that the board is going to have to retain some degree of independance or at least flexibility seperating the sizeable and growing commercial considerations from the openess and pseudo independance of the forum.

cheers
Mike

onetime · 18th November 2007, 03:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

I did feel Dive Rite Express, (the name on the label of the cell) and who does deal with the retail public, did have a responsibility to it's customers, which is why I sent the e-mail. You are welcome.

Could you perhaps explain why not all customers who bought cells got such an email? I bought cells in March so perhaps you didn't look that far back but being a customer that bought cells from you I'd have liked to be aware of the situation.

17th November 2007, 21:02	#51 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 349	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by heyydude) I think that was me, from back in the 90's. (here with some modifications): You get 1 Year from sensors if you store them in a pressure pot full of O2. If you store them in a pressure pot full of Air, you get 12 months. If you seal them in a bag full of Helium, you get 52 weeks. If you seal them in a bag full of Helium, and store them in the fridge, you get 365 days. Kevin. Yep, it was you. Thanks, Kevin.
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 21:28	#52 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,700	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Gobfish1) It seems to me that AI has no obligation or responsibility to issue any kind of 'recall notice' to the general public. thats nice to know , THANKs . It makes you sick dosent it. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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17th November 2007, 21:36	#53 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,700	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) I did feel Dive Rite Express, (the name on the label of the cell) and who does deal with the retail public, did have a responsibility to it's customers, which is why I sent the e-mail. You are welcome. The sarcasm is uncalled for. Your attitude and response in this situation is appropriate AIs isn't. This is life support equipment and a recall should have been issued generally. I am both great full to Rebreather World that I have been made aware, and a little angry that RBW Store customers wern't the first to know. Thats the down side of having a retail organization associated with this web site. Anything bad that happens will reflect back on the site. I got my AI cells via RBWS so that where we will be sending them for replacement. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 21:57	#54 (permalink)
Tecdiverfl New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delray Beach, FL Posts: 70	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall I think Marc did the right thing. I had purchased a cell from him about 2 months ago. Sure enough I received an email warning me to stop using it. I wish other retailers and manufactures were as proactive as he has been in this situation. Turns out I had a batch of bad Teledyn sensors that failed out of the package. I never received notification from the retailer I bought them from. When I called them to tell them of the problem there response was email Teledyn and tell them of the problem.
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 22:05	#55 (permalink)
gerstl_ossi Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 337	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty) The trouble with having cells individually tested by a reseller is that it requires the package to be broken, and therefore no longer stored in an inert atmosphere unless the resellers can set this up. The shelf life is therefore reduced, which may be an issue for "spare" cells. What we really need is cells that are all individually tested by the manufacturer prior to sealing/sale. I'm assuming this doesn't happen already. Personally I would pay a premium for such cells. I think also that this should be the right way. For the use in a live support system the manufacturer should test the cells and match them in groups of 2 ore 3 with the same millivolt output as a replacement set.
(Online)

17th November 2007, 22:40	#56 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 272	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Your attitude and response in this situation is appropriate AIs isn't. This is life support equipment and a recall should have been issued generally. I am both great full to Rebreather World that I have been made aware, and a little angry that RBW Store customers wern't the first to know. Thats the down side of having a retail organization associated with this web site. Anything bad that happens will reflect back on the site. I got my AI cells via RBWS so that where we will be sending them for replacement. ATB Mark We don't know what AI's response will be, there has not been enough time. Keep in mind this all happened just before the weekend, AI may have further plans for next week, I don't have any knowledge of what they plan to do or have done beyond their contact with me. I don't think Rebreather World Store was particularly tardy or it's a reasonable expectation they should 'have it first', especially considering time zone differences. I considered posting on RBW but decided against it because I've been told by RBW not to post Dive Rite Express related content. It's a reasonable assumption that AI contacted their largest customer first on this issue and at least in my case they did so personally by telephone. We were able to quickly broadcast e-mail to our customers who bought sensors because we have order and inventory management technology which literally required only a few mouse clicks. We've also been telephoning and more e-mailing today, and have pretty much accounted for all of them. This whole thing has occurred within a matter of hours, not weeks.... seems extremely efficient to me. We also expect to get sensors sent to us that were sold by others (we already have). It's not a problem, we've made provisions for that and are willing to exchange yours or anyone elses that are from the suspect lots regardless where you purchased them. Last edited by n2diving : 17th November 2007 at 23:00.
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 03:10	#57 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) . Dr Mike and I have crossed swords before over this cell changing regime but I change all my cells together (unless one dies premature) because I buy them from Martin in the knowledge they have been tested I wasnt aware untill now that was one factor in your reasoning. Do we know if the tests APD do will catch all faults (such as non linear temp compensation)? cheers Mike __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 03:15	#58 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Yep thats me and Janos. We took them to 72m yesterday atb Mark Yeh and i took one to 140m this week luckily it was on my BOB (only one cell) but was happy to use it semiclosed if i had to __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 03:34	#59 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) . We were able to quickly broadcast e-mail to our customers who bought sensors because we have order and inventory management technology . Hey Mark, I think thats fine but the onus is then put soley on the distributor to inform their individual customers that there is an inssue. If the distributor doesnt do that for whatever reason then some users will miss these important safety notices. I see no harm in OEMs issuing a blanket statement in parallel (to catch any users who were supplied by distributors who have for what ever reason not informed them) at the very least they should put a notice up on their website. I didnt get mine from RBWs or from your good self - but for what ever reason the distributor I did get them from wasnt able to inform me of the issue before i read it on Rebreather World. Perhaps as you indicate this is because of the nature of the situation. Either way I think the cell mnf need to do far more to improve their quality control and mnf processes because - clearly - they are f_cking hopeless. On a related note: I cant help but worry that as Rebreather World has now metamorphisised into a real commercial business that this could put pressure on the board/business owners to put restictions in place that actually doesnt do us (the people who enable the forum/business) any favours - perhaps your hinting at a case in point here....I hope my concerns are proven wrong - guess time will tell. Its going to be increasingly quite a challenge I should imagine for the board owners/business owners to try to balance the two The creation of a rebreather industry 'monopoly' could be very bad for the industry and users alike - To avoid that the board is going to have to retain some degree of independance or at least flexibility seperating the sizeable and growing commercial considerations from the openess and pseudo independance of the forum. cheers Mike __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 18th November 2007 at 04:05.
(Offline)

18th November 2007, 03:48	#60 (permalink)
onetime Classic KISSer #138 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: US, NJ Posts: 673	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) I did feel Dive Rite Express, (the name on the label of the cell) and who does deal with the retail public, did have a responsibility to it's customers, which is why I sent the e-mail. You are welcome. Could you perhaps explain why not all customers who bought cells got such an email? I bought cells in March so perhaps you didn't look that far back but being a customer that bought cells from you I'd have liked to be aware of the situation. Last edited by onetime : 18th November 2007 at 03:53.
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