Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall

devilgas · 17th November 2007, 11:53

I have had nothing but bad cells from AI all this year.

Every set of 3, only 1 works, after geting replacments from AI, the cells MAY work for 2 to 3 dives, then loose power.

I have had to replace the AI cells while abroad with the R22D's from an Inspiration to finish up a course. They work just fine, a bit too much mv maybe, but noone ever died from too much gas, so too mmany Mv seems to keep working.

I just had a diver in town last week with his new unit, 1 of the 3 cells bad, luckily I had 1 spare that came up to power.

I now have a nice collection to retun back to AI.

Drmike · 17th November 2007, 11:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Just thinking this through - I am guessing if a product has its own forum then the appropriate place would be there to post though for general tips and tricks that could then be made sticky? Although I guess they could post any where and the staff team coudl move as appropriate.

i would suggest a forum where mnf only could post - not a place where they could be pulled into time consuming or sometimes confrontational debates. just a notice board if you like

***schford*** · 17th November 2007, 12:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

i would suggest a forum where mnf only could post - not a place where they could be pulled into time consuming or sometimes confrontational debates. just a notice board if you like

Got it - I agree and will set it up so only people in a group called Manufacturer can post into it.

lancsman · 17th November 2007, 12:52

Just got my email from RBWS offering replacement cells. Thanks for the quick service.

Mark

Tino de Rijk · 17th November 2007, 13:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty)

The trouble with having cells individually tested by a reseller is that it requires the package to be broken, and therefore no longer stored in an inert atmosphere unless the resellers can set this up. The shelf life is therefore reduced, which may be an issue for "spare" cells.
What we really need is cells that are all individually tested by the manufacturer prior to sealing/sale. I'm assuming this doesn't happen already. Personally I would pay a premium for such cells.

This in unfortunately an old fable that stubbornly sticks around. It is not necesary at all to store it in an inert atmosphere - as long as you store it in a small sealed (airtight) bag. The cell will then just use the very little bit of O2 in the bag - and that's it. APD re-seals the cells after testing in a new small bag. That's good enough.
In fact, there is at least one manufacturer here on Rebreather World that says that storing them in a sealed bag doesn't make any difference anyway in terms of overall lifetime. I forgot which one; I thought the guys from Innerspace..? Too lazy to find out.

Look at it this way: if you seal it in a small bag with air, and the cell uses up the remaining O2 in it, it is effectively stored in inert gas, called nitrogen....

ciao,

Tino.

Sutty · 17th November 2007, 13:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

This in unfortunately an old fable that stubbornly sticks around. It is not necesary at all to store it in an inert atmosphere - as long as you store it in a small sealed (airtight) bag. The cell will then just use the very little bit of O2 in the bag - and that's it. APD re-seals the cells after testing in a new small bag. That's good enough.
In fact, there is at least one manufacturer here on Rebreather World that says that storing them in a sealed bag doesn't make any difference anyway in terms of overall lifetime. I forgot which one; I thought the guys from Innerspace..? Too lazy to find out.

Look at it this way: if you seal it in a small bag with air, and the cell uses up the remaining O2 in it, it is effectively stored in inert gas, called nitrogen....

ciao,

Tino.

Only true as long as you can re-seal in something impermeable to O2 like the original bag. Most plastics are permeable to some degree, which is why some drug infusions are in glass rather than plastics. How much such permeability matters for our purposes I have no idea.

dave t · 17th November 2007, 14:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty)

The trouble with having cells individually tested by a reseller is that it requires the package to be broken, and therefore no longer stored in an inert atmosphere unless the resellers can set this up. The shelf life is therefore reduced, which may be an issue for "spare" cells.
What we really need is cells that are all individually tested by the manufacturer prior to sealing/sale. I'm assuming this doesn't happen already. Personally I would pay a premium for such cells.

Yes the manufacturer should test them but they dont Ambient pressure do though thats why I will always buy my cells from them as the test every one they sell. Martin once told be they refused a whole batch due to some problems, and quite regularly they would send a load back. I think its due to this attitude that Teledyne upped their game somewhat.

Yes AP do have to open the bag and reseal after testing but the cells will soon sleep again (by the way its not a good idea to keep doing this to a cell) and I would much rather know they are tested than worry about the resealing of the bag. Dr Mike and I have crossed swords before over this cell changing regime but I change all my cells together (unless one dies premature) because I buy them from Martin in the knowledge they have been tested and If I wanted to buy from a different batch I MAY have to buy elsewhere which I dont want to do. Having said that the cells from Martin are not on his shelve for very long so you (almost)always get young cells. He doesnt catch all the dud ones but its very rare for me to have a cell die young

)

Dave

**Monkey** · 17th November 2007, 14:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

This in unfortunately an old fable that stubbornly sticks around. It is not necesary at all to store it in an inert atmosphere - as long as you store it in a small sealed (airtight) bag. The cell will then just use the very little bit of O2 in the bag - and that's it. APD re-seals the cells after testing in a new small bag. That's good enough.
In fact, there is at least one manufacturer here on Rebreather World that says that storing them in a sealed bag doesn't make any difference anyway in terms of overall lifetime. I forgot which one; I thought the guys from Innerspace..? Too lazy to find out.

Look at it this way: if you seal it in a small bag with air, and the cell uses up the remaining O2 in it, it is effectively stored in inert gas, called nitrogen....

ciao,

Tino.

the best explantion of cell life based on storage method is in the Hammer Head manual. LMAO when I read it.

gathan · 17th November 2007, 14:18

Any possibility for Rebreather World store to start stocking the teledyne cells in the future...

I've had nothing but problems with the AIs since I started using them.

Andre

Blomman · 17th November 2007, 14:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

Yes the manufacturer should test them but they dont Ambient pressure do though thats why I will always buy my cells from them as the test every one they sell. Martin once told be they refused a whole batch due to some problems, and quite regularly they would send a load back. I think its due to this attitude that Teledyne upped their game somewhat.
Dave

Do you or anyone else perhaps know how AP test their cells?

// Blomman

17th November 2007, 11:53	#31 (permalink)
devilgas CCR Instructor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: FL, USA Posts: 191	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall I have had nothing but bad cells from AI all this year. Every set of 3, only 1 works, after geting replacments from AI, the cells MAY work for 2 to 3 dives, then loose power. I have had to replace the AI cells while abroad with the R22D's from an Inspiration to finish up a course. They work just fine, a bit too much mv maybe, but noone ever died from too much gas, so too mmany Mv seems to keep working. I just had a diver in town last week with his new unit, 1 of the 3 cells bad, luckily I had 1 spare that came up to power. I now have a nice collection to retun back to AI. __________________ www.deeptek.net Inspiration / Evolution, O2ptima Instructor
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17th November 2007, 11:55	#32 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Just thinking this through - I am guessing if a product has its own forum then the appropriate place would be there to post though for general tips and tricks that could then be made sticky? Although I guess they could post any where and the staff team coudl move as appropriate. i would suggest a forum where mnf only could post - not a place where they could be pulled into time consuming or sometimes confrontational debates. just a notice board if you like __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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17th November 2007, 12:41	#33 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,662	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) i would suggest a forum where mnf only could post - not a place where they could be pulled into time consuming or sometimes confrontational debates. just a notice board if you like Got it - I agree and will set it up so only people in a group called Manufacturer can post into it. __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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17th November 2007, 12:52	#34 (permalink)
lancsman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK, Flitwick Posts: 60	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Just got my email from RBWS offering replacement cells. Thanks for the quick service. Mark
(Online)

17th November 2007, 13:35	#35 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 309	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty) The trouble with having cells individually tested by a reseller is that it requires the package to be broken, and therefore no longer stored in an inert atmosphere unless the resellers can set this up. The shelf life is therefore reduced, which may be an issue for "spare" cells. What we really need is cells that are all individually tested by the manufacturer prior to sealing/sale. I'm assuming this doesn't happen already. Personally I would pay a premium for such cells. This in unfortunately an old fable that stubbornly sticks around. It is not necesary at all to store it in an inert atmosphere - as long as you store it in a small sealed (airtight) bag. The cell will then just use the very little bit of O2 in the bag - and that's it. APD re-seals the cells after testing in a new small bag. That's good enough. In fact, there is at least one manufacturer here on Rebreather World that says that storing them in a sealed bag doesn't make any difference anyway in terms of overall lifetime. I forgot which one; I thought the guys from Innerspace..? Too lazy to find out. Look at it this way: if you seal it in a small bag with air, and the cell uses up the remaining O2 in it, it is effectively stored in inert gas, called nitrogen.... ciao, Tino.
(Online)

17th November 2007, 13:51	#36 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 775	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) This in unfortunately an old fable that stubbornly sticks around. It is not necesary at all to store it in an inert atmosphere - as long as you store it in a small sealed (airtight) bag. The cell will then just use the very little bit of O2 in the bag - and that's it. APD re-seals the cells after testing in a new small bag. That's good enough. In fact, there is at least one manufacturer here on Rebreather World that says that storing them in a sealed bag doesn't make any difference anyway in terms of overall lifetime. I forgot which one; I thought the guys from Innerspace..? Too lazy to find out. Look at it this way: if you seal it in a small bag with air, and the cell uses up the remaining O2 in it, it is effectively stored in inert gas, called nitrogen.... ciao, Tino. Only true as long as you can re-seal in something impermeable to O2 like the original bag. Most plastics are permeable to some degree, which is why some drug infusions are in glass rather than plastics. How much such permeability matters for our purposes I have no idea. __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 14:06	#37 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 621	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty) The trouble with having cells individually tested by a reseller is that it requires the package to be broken, and therefore no longer stored in an inert atmosphere unless the resellers can set this up. The shelf life is therefore reduced, which may be an issue for "spare" cells. What we really need is cells that are all individually tested by the manufacturer prior to sealing/sale. I'm assuming this doesn't happen already. Personally I would pay a premium for such cells. Yes the manufacturer should test them but they dont Ambient pressure do though thats why I will always buy my cells from them as the test every one they sell. Martin once told be they refused a whole batch due to some problems, and quite regularly they would send a load back. I think its due to this attitude that Teledyne upped their game somewhat. Yes AP do have to open the bag and reseal after testing but the cells will soon sleep again (by the way its not a good idea to keep doing this to a cell) and I would much rather know they are tested than worry about the resealing of the bag. Dr Mike and I have crossed swords before over this cell changing regime but I change all my cells together (unless one dies premature) because I buy them from Martin in the knowledge they have been tested and If I wanted to buy from a different batch I MAY have to buy elsewhere which I dont want to do. Having said that the cells from Martin are not on his shelve for very long so you (almost)always get young cells. He doesnt catch all the dud ones but its very rare for me to have a cell die young ) Dave
(Online)

17th November 2007, 14:14	#38 (permalink)
Monkey Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lauderdale By The Sea Florida Posts: 343	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) This in unfortunately an old fable that stubbornly sticks around. It is not necesary at all to store it in an inert atmosphere - as long as you store it in a small sealed (airtight) bag. The cell will then just use the very little bit of O2 in the bag - and that's it. APD re-seals the cells after testing in a new small bag. That's good enough. In fact, there is at least one manufacturer here on Rebreather World that says that storing them in a sealed bag doesn't make any difference anyway in terms of overall lifetime. I forgot which one; I thought the guys from Innerspace..? Too lazy to find out. Look at it this way: if you seal it in a small bag with air, and the cell uses up the remaining O2 in it, it is effectively stored in inert gas, called nitrogen.... ciao, Tino. the best explantion of cell life based on storage method is in the Hammer Head manual. LMAO when I read it.
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 14:18	#39 (permalink)
gathan MixedGas Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tottenham, Ontario, Canada Posts: 202	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Any possibility for Rebreather World store to start stocking the teledyne cells in the future... I've had nothing but problems with the AIs since I started using them. Andre
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17th November 2007, 14:24	#40 (permalink)
Blomman Helium is addictive! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 148	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) Yes the manufacturer should test them but they dont Ambient pressure do though thats why I will always buy my cells from them as the test every one they sell. Martin once told be they refused a whole batch due to some problems, and quite regularly they would send a load back. I think its due to this attitude that Teledyne upped their game somewhat. Dave Do you or anyone else perhaps know how AP test their cells? // Blomman
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