Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall

**Monkey** · 17th November 2007, 10:31

The rebreather World Store stands behind the products we sell. We are aware of this situation and are looking at how best to handle it. I will have a more formal statement shortly. However, do not hesitate to contact me directly with any questions you may have.

Monkey
US Rebreather World Store

***schford*** · 17th November 2007, 10:54

I just spoke to Mark Gregus at AII to talk about this - apparantly there was a manufacturing issue with the last few batches that caused some sensors to fail early, he said that this does not affect every sensor but they are replacing all recent orders to their resellers in the next few days.

The affected AII sensor codes are:

PSR 11-39-MD
PSR 11-39-APD
PSR 11-39-JD

So if you have bought a recent AII sensor - then even if it appears ok - my advice woud be not to dive it and get it replaced from your reseller.

Drmike · 17th November 2007, 10:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

Well, at least that mnf we all know you like to take a shot at,

Ill just stop you there and say thats totally untrue, unjustified and frankly rather a silly comment to make.

You could easily say the same thing about Leon (as ive given ISC a lot of crap recently) or about several other mnf. Me and Martin share a different view of cell replacement regieme thats all . When have I eber taken a shot at him? Ive always been rather fond of him, hes always been very nice to me the several times Ive met him. I only 'like' to take shot at idiots - of which there are many and of which Martin certainly isnt one. If you regard being independantly ojective about and sensitive to all units safety issues and voicing critisism of what i see as poor design in any system as 'taking a shot' then well Im happy to be guilty as charged.

Quote:

takes the trouble of testing each R22 cell he receives before re-selling them....

i aplaud anyone or anything that makes our dives safer.

Quote:

Maybe a tip for the Rebreather World shop? just buy some of those new shiny Narked@90 cell-checkers and test'm all before distribution. Raise the price a bit, as surely one's life is worth a few dollars/euros/pounds every 6 or 18 months (depending on which school of change regime you're in).
You could even make two lines: one cheapo, for the dollar-saving fools, saying "not tested, just resold", and one with a premium, saying "testing for 4 ours at 2.0 bar PO2 and was o.k.".

i was going to ask how APD tests them is that how they test them or is that narked@90s way?

Drmike · 17th November 2007, 11:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

I just spoke to Mark Gregus at AII to talk about this - apparantly there was a manufacturing issue with the last few batches that caused some sensors to fail early, he said that this does not affect every sensor but they are replacing all recent orders to their resellers in the next few days.

The affected AII sensor codes are:

PSR 11-39-MD
PSR 11-39-APD
PSR 11-39-JD

So if you have bought a recent AII sensor - then even if it appears ok - my advice woud be not to dive it and get it replaced from your reseller.

Hi Stuart,

Perhaps Rebreather World could set up a 'manufactures notice forum' where recall notices, product warnings, mnf suggestions etc could be posted (by them) in order to reach majority of their customers as quickly as possible with safety info

Tino de Rijk · 17th November 2007, 11:16

Mike,

o.k., I'll gladly take your word on it, and will apologize If I got that wrong. You come on over rather strong however lately though... I thought I had the "privilege" over here at being the ultimate blunt one.... :-)

As to test-protocol: don't know; ask Martin for details. It is just what I made up on the fly as seeming sensibie: some prolonged duration (at least a few hours), and a high PO2 (at least way above the operational high SP). Mind you, given the very nature of these cells, there is no such thing as a "perfect" test - other than leaving them in a testkit for six months or so.... However, from what I have gathered on experience over the last 10 years, many (but admittedly not all) will show up in the first few hours of use. Reading through this AI thread, most in these faulty badges do as well. So it at least would add to raising the probability of it being o.k. considerably - but never to 100%.
Other than that: always structurally mistrust what's hanging off your shoulders. Trust is good, control is better. So keep those 6 meter O2 flushes & incidental O2 squirts at depth in for checking current limitation...

ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Ill just stop you there and say thats totally untrue, unjustified and frankly rather a silly comment to make.

You could easily say the same thing about Leon (as ive given ISC a lot of crap recently) or about several other mnf. Me and Martin share a different view of cell replacement regieme thats all . When have I eber taken a shot at him? Ive always been rather fond of him, hes always been very nice to me the several times Ive met him. I only 'like' to take shot at idiots - of which there are many and of which Martin certainly isnt one. If you regard being independantly ojective about and sensitive to all units safety issues and voicing critisism of what i see as poor design in any system as 'taking a shot' then well Im happy to be guilty as charged.

i aplaud anyone or anything that makes our dives safer.

i was going to ask how APD tests them is that how they test them or is that narked@90s way?

***schford*** · 17th November 2007, 11:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Hi Stuart,

Perhaps Rebreather World could set up a 'manufactures notice forum' where recall notices, product warnings, mnf suggestions etc could be posted (by them) in order to reach majority of their customers as quickly as possible with safety info

Great Idea Mike,

I will get that setup and also set it to appear at the top of the front page if a manufacturer posts in it.

Stuart

Drmike · 17th November 2007, 11:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

Mind you, given the very nature of these cells, there is no such thing as a "perfect" test - other than leaving them in a testkit for six months or so.... However, from what I have gathered on experience over the last 10 years, many (but admittedly not all) will show up in the first few hours of use. Reading through this AI thread, most in these faulty badges do as well. So it at least would add to raising the probability of it being o.k. considerably - but never to 100%. .

Your prob quite right. The one that failed in Song Hong was a new one I put in the BOB the night before. I soaked it overnight in a sealed bag of pure O2 to ensure the cell had fully 'woken up' and it apeared fine, but it died very quickly in ppo2 of 1.1bar after about 3 hours use next day. I suspect a thorough test would include temp as well as ppo2 and time - But who knows

Drmike · 17th November 2007, 11:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Great Idea Mike,

I will get that setup and also set it to appear at the top of the front page if a manufacturer posts in it.

Stuart

it might be nice if having it encourages mnf to also post their suggestions on how best to use, maintain or check their products. Im sure mnf often have knowledge, little tricks of the trade if you like, that we could benefit from. currently they have no official direct notice facility and word only filters down through users - this could be a better way i think,

***schford*** · 17th November 2007, 11:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

it might be nice if having it encourages mnf to also post their suggestions on how best to use, maintain or check their products. Im sure mnf often have knowledge, little tricks of the trade if you like, that we could benefit from. currently they have no official direct notice facility and word only filters down through users - this could be a better way i think,

Just thinking this through - I am guessing if a product has its own forum then the appropriate place would be there to post though for general tips and tricks that could then be made sticky? Although I guess they could post any where and the staff team coudl move as appropriate.

Sutty · 17th November 2007, 11:39

The trouble with having cells individually tested by a reseller is that it requires the package to be broken, and therefore no longer stored in an inert atmosphere unless the resellers can set this up. The shelf life is therefore reduced, which may be an issue for "spare" cells.
What we really need is cells that are all individually tested by the manufacturer prior to sealing/sale. I'm assuming this doesn't happen already. Personally I would pay a premium for such cells.

17th November 2007, 10:31	#21 (permalink)
Monkey Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lauderdale By The Sea Florida Posts: 343	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall The rebreather World Store stands behind the products we sell. We are aware of this situation and are looking at how best to handle it. I will have a more formal statement shortly. However, do not hesitate to contact me directly with any questions you may have. Monkey US Rebreather World Store
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 10:54	#22 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,662	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall I just spoke to Mark Gregus at AII to talk about this - apparantly there was a manufacturing issue with the last few batches that caused some sensors to fail early, he said that this does not affect every sensor but they are replacing all recent orders to their resellers in the next few days. The affected AII sensor codes are: PSR 11-39-MD PSR 11-39-APD PSR 11-39-JD So if you have bought a recent AII sensor - then even if it appears ok - my advice woud be not to dive it and get it replaced from your reseller. __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use Last edited by schford : 17th November 2007 at 11:06.
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17th November 2007, 10:59	#23 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Attention!!! O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) Well, at least that mnf we all know you like to take a shot at, Ill just stop you there and say thats totally untrue, unjustified and frankly rather a silly comment to make. You could easily say the same thing about Leon (as ive given ISC a lot of crap recently) or about several other mnf. Me and Martin share a different view of cell replacement regieme thats all . When have I eber taken a shot at him? Ive always been rather fond of him, hes always been very nice to me the several times Ive met him. I only 'like' to take shot at idiots - of which there are many and of which Martin certainly isnt one. If you regard being independantly ojective about and sensitive to all units safety issues and voicing critisism of what i see as poor design in any system as 'taking a shot' then well Im happy to be guilty as charged. Quote: takes the trouble of testing each R22 cell he receives before re-selling them.... i aplaud anyone or anything that makes our dives safer. Quote: Maybe a tip for the Rebreather World shop? just buy some of those new shiny Narked@90 cell-checkers and test'm all before distribution. Raise the price a bit, as surely one's life is worth a few dollars/euros/pounds every 6 or 18 months (depending on which school of change regime you're in). You could even make two lines: one cheapo, for the dollar-saving fools, saying "not tested, just resold", and one with a premium, saying "testing for 4 ours at 2.0 bar PO2 and was o.k.". i was going to ask how APD tests them is that how they test them or is that narked@90s way? __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 17th November 2007 at 11:03.
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17th November 2007, 11:13	#24 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) I just spoke to Mark Gregus at AII to talk about this - apparantly there was a manufacturing issue with the last few batches that caused some sensors to fail early, he said that this does not affect every sensor but they are replacing all recent orders to their resellers in the next few days. The affected AII sensor codes are: PSR 11-39-MD PSR 11-39-APD PSR 11-39-JD So if you have bought a recent AII sensor - then even if it appears ok - my advice woud be not to dive it and get it replaced from your reseller. Hi Stuart, Perhaps Rebreather World could set up a 'manufactures notice forum' where recall notices, product warnings, mnf suggestions etc could be posted (by them) in order to reach majority of their customers as quickly as possible with safety info __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 11:16	#25 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 307	Re: Attention!!! O2 Sensor Recall Mike, o.k., I'll gladly take your word on it, and will apologize If I got that wrong. You come on over rather strong however lately though... I thought I had the "privilege" over here at being the ultimate blunt one.... :-) As to test-protocol: don't know; ask Martin for details. It is just what I made up on the fly as seeming sensibie: some prolonged duration (at least a few hours), and a high PO2 (at least way above the operational high SP). Mind you, given the very nature of these cells, there is no such thing as a "perfect" test - other than leaving them in a testkit for six months or so.... However, from what I have gathered on experience over the last 10 years, many (but admittedly not all) will show up in the first few hours of use. Reading through this AI thread, most in these faulty badges do as well. So it at least would add to raising the probability of it being o.k. considerably - but never to 100%. Other than that: always structurally mistrust what's hanging off your shoulders. Trust is good, control is better. So keep those 6 meter O2 flushes & incidental O2 squirts at depth in for checking current limitation... ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Ill just stop you there and say thats totally untrue, unjustified and frankly rather a silly comment to make. You could easily say the same thing about Leon (as ive given ISC a lot of crap recently) or about several other mnf. Me and Martin share a different view of cell replacement regieme thats all . When have I eber taken a shot at him? Ive always been rather fond of him, hes always been very nice to me the several times Ive met him. I only 'like' to take shot at idiots - of which there are many and of which Martin certainly isnt one. If you regard being independantly ojective about and sensitive to all units safety issues and voicing critisism of what i see as poor design in any system as 'taking a shot' then well Im happy to be guilty as charged. i aplaud anyone or anything that makes our dives safer. i was going to ask how APD tests them is that how they test them or is that narked@90s way?
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 11:21	#26 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,662	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Hi Stuart, Perhaps Rebreather World could set up a 'manufactures notice forum' where recall notices, product warnings, mnf suggestions etc could be posted (by them) in order to reach majority of their customers as quickly as possible with safety info Great Idea Mike, I will get that setup and also set it to appear at the top of the front page if a manufacturer posts in it. Stuart __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 11:22	#27 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Attention!!! O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) Mind you, given the very nature of these cells, there is no such thing as a "perfect" test - other than leaving them in a testkit for six months or so.... However, from what I have gathered on experience over the last 10 years, many (but admittedly not all) will show up in the first few hours of use. Reading through this AI thread, most in these faulty badges do as well. So it at least would add to raising the probability of it being o.k. considerably - but never to 100%. . Your prob quite right. The one that failed in Song Hong was a new one I put in the BOB the night before. I soaked it overnight in a sealed bag of pure O2 to ensure the cell had fully 'woken up' and it apeared fine, but it died very quickly in ppo2 of 1.1bar after about 3 hours use next day. I suspect a thorough test would include temp as well as ppo2 and time - But who knows __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 11:26	#28 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Great Idea Mike, I will get that setup and also set it to appear at the top of the front page if a manufacturer posts in it. Stuart it might be nice if having it encourages mnf to also post their suggestions on how best to use, maintain or check their products. Im sure mnf often have knowledge, little tricks of the trade if you like, that we could benefit from. currently they have no official direct notice facility and word only filters down through users - this could be a better way i think, __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 11:32	#29 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,662	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) it might be nice if having it encourages mnf to also post their suggestions on how best to use, maintain or check their products. Im sure mnf often have knowledge, little tricks of the trade if you like, that we could benefit from. currently they have no official direct notice facility and word only filters down through users - this could be a better way i think, Just thinking this through - I am guessing if a product has its own forum then the appropriate place would be there to post though for general tips and tricks that could then be made sticky? Although I guess they could post any where and the staff team coudl move as appropriate. __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
(Offline)

17th November 2007, 11:39	#30 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 775	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall The trouble with having cells individually tested by a reseller is that it requires the package to be broken, and therefore no longer stored in an inert atmosphere unless the resellers can set this up. The shelf life is therefore reduced, which may be an issue for "spare" cells. What we really need is cells that are all individually tested by the manufacturer prior to sealing/sale. I'm assuming this doesn't happen already. Personally I would pay a premium for such cells. __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
(Offline)

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