Lazy cells: how much is too much?

Drmike · 22nd October 2007, 13:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

Calling Dr. Gadd

(not you Mr. Hyde

),

this discussion has become

.

If you want to dwell on technical aspects, well I'm open to reasoned suggestion and impartial argument. If you're fishing for an opportunity for more antagonism, you may

my hairy

.

so your trying to tell me you didnt change what you said your protocal was?

Anyone reading this thread can see that you did.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

At the start of bottom on any dive I'll use my offboard bailout to flush the loop and check what the cells are saying.

became:

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

Whilst descending, loop is being fed with offboard and the PO2 increases asymptotically

Im happy to spend time debating technical aspects with anyone but i think its only polite that you argue your points honestly and not change your story to suit the arguments put to you. Otherwise your just messing people around.

Your response to being called out is remenisent of anothers reaction to being called out

- make it personal

make it about the observer and not about whats observed.

Hey but what do I know I am mentally unstable right

whatever, Im done with this discussion.

Gilles · 22nd October 2007, 22:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

so your trying to tell me you didnt change what you said your protocal was?

Hey but what do I know I am mentally unstable right

I provided a general description, and provided detail as the protocol was scrutinized. You interpret this as changing protocol to suit my arguments. If you examine my posts above, all can observe that I haven't changed or edited them.

You know what they say, the first step to recovery is aknowledgement of the truth.

Drmike · 23rd October 2007, 03:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

I provided a general description, and provided detail as the protocol was scrutinized. You interpret this as changing protocol to suit my arguments. If you examine my posts above, all can observe that I haven't changed or edited them.

You know what they say, the first step to recovery is aknowledgement of the truth.

sorry can you say that in english - i dont speak french

[added: sorry to any french people, only joking, no offense meant]

Gilles · 23rd October 2007, 04:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

...french

another assumption

Drmike · 23rd October 2007, 04:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

another assumption

sorry was that too subtle for you?

jknox · 23rd October 2007, 05:12

I don't understand how much O2 you waste by spiking the cells on the way down?

What I do is after the negative test, flood the loop with O2 before I jump in, with the ADV off. One the way down to 6-7m where I complete my bubble check, I continue adding O2 to make up for the volume loss. If the cells are not near 1.6 then there is an issue. It checks that the cells are not current limited, and that they are roughly linear, since when I jump in the cells are reading 0.95-1. As soon as you open the ADV and Dil starts flooding the loop on decent past 6m, the PO2 drops as you are breathing it down and no O2 is really wasted... Plus you have a plenty of O2 in the loop on the surface if something goes awry

jhaaja · 23rd October 2007, 05:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by jknox)

I don't understand how much O2 you waste by spiking the cells on the way down?

What I do is after the negative test, flood the loop with O2 before I jump in, with the ADV off. One the way down to 6-7m where I complete my bubble check, I continue adding O2 to make up for the volume loss. If the cells are not near 1.6 then there is an issue. It checks that the cells are not current limited, and that they are roughly linear, since when I jump in the cells are reading 0.95-1. As soon as you open the ADV and Dil starts flooding the loop on decent past 6m, the PO2 drops as you are breathing it down and no O2 is really wasted... Plus you have a plenty of O2 in the loop on the surface if something goes awry

I do this quite often also, not on every dive but still. I think it is a good way to check the cells reaction for higher ppO2.

JH

Drmike · 23rd October 2007, 05:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by jknox)

I don't understand how much O2 you waste by spiking the cells on the way down?

What I do is after the negative test, flood the loop with O2 before I jump in, with the ADV off. One the way down to 6-7m where I complete my bubble check, I continue adding O2 to make up for the volume loss. If the cells are not near 1.6 then there is an issue. It checks that the cells are not current limited, and that they are roughly linear, since when I jump in the cells are reading 0.95-1. As soon as you open the ADV and Dil starts flooding the loop on decent past 6m, the PO2 drops as you are breathing it down and no O2 is really wasted... Plus you have a plenty of O2 in the loop on the surface if something goes awry

plus your checking your cells before your dive - and not when your already commited (at the bottom) when, on a deep dive you can already have deco obligation.

kieranu · 23rd October 2007, 05:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by jknox)

I don't understand how much O2 you waste by spiking the cells on the way down?

What I do is after the negative test, flood the loop with O2 before I jump in, with the ADV off. One the way down to 6-7m where I complete my bubble check, I continue adding O2 to make up for the volume loss. If the cells are not near 1.6 then there is an issue. It checks that the cells are not current limited, and that they are roughly linear, since when I jump in the cells are reading 0.95-1. As soon as you open the ADV and Dil starts flooding the loop on decent past 6m, the PO2 drops as you are breathing it down and no O2 is really wasted... Plus you have a plenty of O2 in the loop on the surface if something goes awry

Same same pretty much, though I may not be quite at .95 or 1 on the surface I try to get pretty close on the pre-breathe and bump it up a little at the start of descent to ensure sufficient gas volume in the loop. Between 6 and 8m make sure its reading what it should and at least .2 above my dive setpoint - need to remember to be a little patient there as cells take a few seconds to catch up with the ppO2 their reading - I'm personally not overly concerned about being at ppO2 1.8 at the worst case for a few seconds. Bang on the ADV and head to the bottom - if I'm still a little bit over setpoint at the bottom (but within what I've checked the limit to at 6-8m), who cares. I just breathe it down to setpoint over the next few minutes and save some O2. Further reduces chance of DCI and my dive profiles are never close to CNS limits anyway.

PCDiver · 23rd October 2007, 05:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

plus your checking your cells before your dive - and not when your already commited (at the bottom) when, on a deep dive you can already have deco obligation.

I really don't get it why people don't do this on most dives. There is the odd current dive where you have to descent as fast as possible without a line, but on most it should be standard practice. It is safer, you don't need any new skills, ... It is time the agencies start teaching it and the Rebreather divers start using it.

22nd October 2007, 13:31	#21 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,322	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles) Calling Dr. Gadd (not you Mr. Hyde ), this discussion has become . If you want to dwell on technical aspects, well I'm open to reasoned suggestion and impartial argument. If you're fishing for an opportunity for more antagonism, you may my hairy . so your trying to tell me you didnt change what you said your protocal was? Anyone reading this thread can see that you did. Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles) At the start of bottom on any dive I'll use my offboard bailout to flush the loop and check what the cells are saying. became: Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles) Whilst descending, loop is being fed with offboard and the PO2 increases asymptotically Im happy to spend time debating technical aspects with anyone but i think its only polite that you argue your points honestly and not change your story to suit the arguments put to you. Otherwise your just messing people around. Your response to being called out is remenisent of anothers reaction to being called out - make it personal make it about the observer and not about whats observed. Hey but what do I know I am mentally unstable right whatever, Im done with this discussion. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 22nd October 2007 at 13:58.
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22nd October 2007, 22:11	#22 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) so your trying to tell me you didnt change what you said your protocal was? Hey but what do I know I am mentally unstable right I provided a general description, and provided detail as the protocol was scrutinized. You interpret this as changing protocol to suit my arguments. If you examine my posts above, all can observe that I haven't changed or edited them. You know what they say, the first step to recovery is aknowledgement of the truth. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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23rd October 2007, 03:39	#23 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,322	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles) I provided a general description, and provided detail as the protocol was scrutinized. You interpret this as changing protocol to suit my arguments. If you examine my posts above, all can observe that I haven't changed or edited them. You know what they say, the first step to recovery is aknowledgement of the truth. sorry can you say that in english - i dont speak french [added: sorry to any french people, only joking, no offense meant] __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 23rd October 2007 at 05:13.
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23rd October 2007, 04:31	#24 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) ...french another assumption __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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23rd October 2007, 04:49	#25 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,322	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles) another assumption sorry was that too subtle for you? __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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23rd October 2007, 05:12	#26 (permalink)
jknox New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 37	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? I don't understand how much O2 you waste by spiking the cells on the way down? What I do is after the negative test, flood the loop with O2 before I jump in, with the ADV off. One the way down to 6-7m where I complete my bubble check, I continue adding O2 to make up for the volume loss. If the cells are not near 1.6 then there is an issue. It checks that the cells are not current limited, and that they are roughly linear, since when I jump in the cells are reading 0.95-1. As soon as you open the ADV and Dil starts flooding the loop on decent past 6m, the PO2 drops as you are breathing it down and no O2 is really wasted... Plus you have a plenty of O2 in the loop on the surface if something goes awry
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23rd October 2007, 05:16	#27 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 884	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by jknox) I don't understand how much O2 you waste by spiking the cells on the way down? What I do is after the negative test, flood the loop with O2 before I jump in, with the ADV off. One the way down to 6-7m where I complete my bubble check, I continue adding O2 to make up for the volume loss. If the cells are not near 1.6 then there is an issue. It checks that the cells are not current limited, and that they are roughly linear, since when I jump in the cells are reading 0.95-1. As soon as you open the ADV and Dil starts flooding the loop on decent past 6m, the PO2 drops as you are breathing it down and no O2 is really wasted... Plus you have a plenty of O2 in the loop on the surface if something goes awry I do this quite often also, not on every dive but still. I think it is a good way to check the cells reaction for higher ppO2. JH
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23rd October 2007, 05:18	#28 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,322	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by jknox) I don't understand how much O2 you waste by spiking the cells on the way down? What I do is after the negative test, flood the loop with O2 before I jump in, with the ADV off. One the way down to 6-7m where I complete my bubble check, I continue adding O2 to make up for the volume loss. If the cells are not near 1.6 then there is an issue. It checks that the cells are not current limited, and that they are roughly linear, since when I jump in the cells are reading 0.95-1. As soon as you open the ADV and Dil starts flooding the loop on decent past 6m, the PO2 drops as you are breathing it down and no O2 is really wasted... Plus you have a plenty of O2 in the loop on the surface if something goes awry plus your checking your cells before your dive - and not when your already commited (at the bottom) when, on a deep dive you can already have deco obligation. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
(Offline)

23rd October 2007, 05:35	#29 (permalink)
kieranu Apprentice Meg Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: WA, Australia Posts: 235	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by jknox) I don't understand how much O2 you waste by spiking the cells on the way down? What I do is after the negative test, flood the loop with O2 before I jump in, with the ADV off. One the way down to 6-7m where I complete my bubble check, I continue adding O2 to make up for the volume loss. If the cells are not near 1.6 then there is an issue. It checks that the cells are not current limited, and that they are roughly linear, since when I jump in the cells are reading 0.95-1. As soon as you open the ADV and Dil starts flooding the loop on decent past 6m, the PO2 drops as you are breathing it down and no O2 is really wasted... Plus you have a plenty of O2 in the loop on the surface if something goes awry Same same pretty much, though I may not be quite at .95 or 1 on the surface I try to get pretty close on the pre-breathe and bump it up a little at the start of descent to ensure sufficient gas volume in the loop. Between 6 and 8m make sure its reading what it should and at least .2 above my dive setpoint - need to remember to be a little patient there as cells take a few seconds to catch up with the ppO2 their reading - I'm personally not overly concerned about being at ppO2 1.8 at the worst case for a few seconds. Bang on the ADV and head to the bottom - if I'm still a little bit over setpoint at the bottom (but within what I've checked the limit to at 6-8m), who cares. I just breathe it down to setpoint over the next few minutes and save some O2. Further reduces chance of DCI and my dive profiles are never close to CNS limits anyway.
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23rd October 2007, 05:43	#30 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 968	Re: Lazy cells: how much is too much? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) plus your checking your cells before your dive - and not when your already commited (at the bottom) when, on a deep dive you can already have deco obligation. I really don't get it why people don't do this on most dives. There is the odd current dive where you have to descent as fast as possible without a line, but on most it should be standard practice. It is safer, you don't need any new skills, ... It is time the agencies start teaching it and the Rebreather divers start using it.
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