what makes liveaboard rebreather friendly

jorgeantoniomw

Hello Everyone,

Very good inputs!! Just want to add some environmental conditions to your expertise.

I am in a very complicated area, currents are very strong in the surface and underwater. I am located 600 miles from the south american coast in a oceanic volcanic achipelago. Actually it is often difficult to know what is happening with the current until you are in the bottom.

Liveaboards have tender boats / ribs that follow divers for safety. A diver lost underwater or in the surface can be drifted away very fast here. What we usually do is follow the bubble trail for OC divers. CCR liveaboards close to not existing here.

How can this be done with CCR divers? having a surface marker pulled by the divers is not an option due to the strong currents in the surface and the wind.

Another matter are the spares and kits. The best dive sites here are 18 hours from the closest town and that town has no support for CCR's whatsoever.

Would having a combined team (8 CCR divers and 8 OC divers) in totally separated diving groups be an advantage. That way if a CCR fails and the diver cannot use it OC is a "trip bailout" option? Is that a "plus" for a liveaboard trip?

Also due to imports and customs here a keg of mesh can be arround USD 400!! is that too much? unfortunately there is no way arround that...

As for absorbent, should a dive liveaboard require that the mesh is used according to the CCR testings. Many CCR divers like to extend their absorbent times if the conditions are right, but as a tour operator would it seem odd if we request that the divers use change mesh according to specifications? what about risk management?

All dives must be guided dives and all divers must dive together here. Entering a deco schedule would extend the ascent times and currents would have a bigger impact in locating divers in the surface. If a dive operator states: maximum 40 mts, no deco, 2hr dives allowed for CCR divers; Is that appealing enough??

I will appreciate your thoughts on these subjects, I'm sure they will be useful for Thorwald as well.

Cheers,

Jorge

EBT

My take on it;

Consumables;

- HP O2/Diluent available
- Absorbent.

Facilities;

- Dry area with workbench etc for repairs (doesnt have to be big, or dedicated).
- Basic toolkit (I usually bring my own, but its in a big peli case)
- dustpan/brush/bucket (for the inevitable absorbent spills)

Rental;

- Bailout tanks (pref alu)
- drive tanks (optional, can be a mess with choices)


Personally I dont like restrictions being placed on my diving, but in the real world there are sometimes valid reasons for this (remoteness from support, local environment). The key thing though is I like to know these BEFORE i book, this way my choice is informed and arguments are avoided.

Theres plenty of other things people could ask for (spares etc), but the above represents a good starter.

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stunsm

To illustrate 2 things that I feel are extremely important, I'll tell a quick story about a local boat (not liveaboard but the same issues apply) that I won't use again. Over the summer, my buddy and I booked 2 spots for a "2 tank" dive on the St. Lawrence (US side). To have 6 people on the boat would be a little crowded but workable, on this day there were 9 divers (we were the only Rebreather's) and 2 crew. The acting captain asked how long we intended to stay down on our first dive. Trying to be considerate of the OC divers, I said maybe an hour, hour and a half, and was immediately shot down and told to be back in 45 minutes! Our bailout tanks by this time were buried under 2 tiers of everyone elses cylinders, conveniently piled up in the middle of the boat due to lack of tank racks/bungees, so we were almost last in the water and had a terribly short dive. After a surface interval and trip to another wreck for the second dive, we were told to be back in 30 minutes!! Mind you, these were both rec depth wrecks, but I would have found those times short and offensive on single tank OC. Between the total lack of space (I ended up standing with my gear still on my back for about 15 minutes after getting out of the water for lack of space to sit or de-kit), the incredibly short bottom times, and the general attitude of the crew being that they had something better to do than be on the water that day, I will not ever use this operation again. So long story slightly less long, the important things to me above all are: room to gear up, check over or work on gear, and a bit of leeway on run times. Another boat, the Pacific Star out of California, alleviated these problems by dedicating the entire bow area to rebreathers. Nice and spacious, no curious open water students poking at your gear, etc...

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hzracing

Minimum support for a true rebreather friendly operator

Sorb, 4-8 and 8-12 at a reasonable price for the destination
Pure O2

next level:
Tanks, alum 13's and steel HP23's are the two I use on my Kiss, don't know what all the other units use. CK's also use standard left/right valves, I know some of the other rebreathers use inspo style valves. So tanks may be a bit much to get into at first.

Be friendly to CCR diving, expect longer bottom times! I have no desire to dive off a boat that tells me MY dive profile.

David

saveourseas

Since every dive in the Galapagos has to be guided, the rules almost make it impossible to do anything but team diving. Splitting the group into OC and CCR divers would be the only way to do it, and of course the guide would have to be on CCR or Nitrox doubles. Vis and current would dictate how far the group could venture from the guide.

I think a total run time of 2 hours is absolutely appropriate and given the temps and workloads at Wolf and Darwin and the duration of some rebreather's, I think most divers would be willing to surface at 2 hours.

I know some dive boats where currents can be vicious are handing out diver Epirb's to every guest. That combined with SMB's, whistles and possibly emergency strobes should be mandatory equipment for CCR divers. I don't know how else you could do it without violating park rules.

I hear that more often than not. I'm trying right now to get a few pallets imported into the Bahamas without paying the 50% duty, as it is not for resale. What a PITA! I would say that $400 will be too much for almost everybody. By the time you sold 1/3 of a pallet, the sorb would be beyond expiry date.

I think if you start trying to track usage as a standardized practice, you will drive yourself and your guests crazy. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" would seem to describe that scenario pretty accurately. Make a very strongly worded statement about scrubber usage during the initial diver briefing and then if you think a guest is trying to extend their scrubber, absolutely quietly track his/her usage and have a walk to the bow with them if need be.

So true Andy! I usually don't have too much of an issue, but I came into DPS with 200 kilos of gear so I probably looked ripe for a wallet plucking. I wrote up a trip report and posted it on wetpixel and got back a lot of similar horror stories. It seems that camera gear sets off all sorts of bells at DPS these days. Most people are recommending Makassar or Manado as gateways to Indo if you have a lot of gear.
If the customs guy hadn't relented on the $10,000 (US) "deposit" (which I never would have seen again) I would have had to turn around and head back to Singapore!

jamiemac

A subject very close to my heart!

I've been running the MV Trident for 5 years now and think we've just about got it right.

I think you need.

1/ Sorb, lots of it, and preferably a choice for the fussy buggers

2/ O2 boosted to 200bar, and someone to do it

3/ He, we blend with contin flow, so as easy as pumping air

4/ selection of CCR cyls for rent

5/ Selection of Bailout tanks and straps

6/ Spare cells , batteries, and odds and sods. He analyser,

7/ Dry clean area and tools to work on units, it's amazing how many 'perfect' units are always in bits

8/Dinghy to follow the muppets that lose the wreck. Good surface supervision and signalling procedures need to be put in place.

9/ no restriction on times, as long as every one comes back before dark, I'm happy

10/ Sat phone for when they don't!

Personally I prefer CCR charters over O/C. There's less pumping and gas requirements, less moaning about Helium bills and I learn from you blokes too

Cheers

Jamie

Mike

The easy answer to the topic was going to be along the lines of "ask Vidar" or "The boat should be called MV Empress"

But from all reports the Trident would seem to be on par as well.

Seriously, if I was going to set up a similar operation, I'd just book for a trip on each of those boats, and copy the bits you find appropriate!

Mike

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safagamarc

Hi all,

Get the impression by reading this very intresting thread that we are abit spoilt in the Red Sea for CCR liveaboards. It does strike me that Jamie has it cracked in Thailand and it sounds as you guys from the USA are dragging loads of excess baggage with you for a dive trip. This is maybe the reason that the Red Sea has had to get CCR liveaboard friendly. Excess baggage from most European countries now cost more than the whole trip, I've even heard of people leaving Rebreather cylinders at the destination as it was cheaper to buy new than pay excess for the leg home!

For a weeks liveaboard in the Red Sea I usually only take a boat with either all CCR or all O/C, mixing I've found is not a great option as someone always feels like their missing out. For a CCR trip I usually make the max. number of divers 12 so that all have enough space for stages, unit as well as a nice area to work on the unit if need be. I take for the dive team.

2 x O2 booster pumps (its a real PITA if one has a problem and your at Brother Islands) there one gas blender pumps O2 and the other can do other mixes if the need arises.
2 x Gas Blender and CCR mixed gas certified staff (surface cover/stand by)
Banked premixed trimix for the trip requirements
O2 loads of it
Various analysers He and O2
Sofnolime 797 Plenty at a fair price
Spares as well as cells for the more popular Rebreather's
Stages and Rebreather cylinders for all (trip dependant)
Full tool kit and a cell checker just because I got one!
Spare unit spare head if we cant fix a problem got a bail out unit.

Very important a bloody good chef!!!

Thats about it.

Safe diving,
Marc

frankymar

Very important a bloody good chef!!! --> that's you Marc!!!

safagamarc

Thanks Frank,

But I meant a food chef, bad food bad trip I find!

Thanks,
Marc