It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register for free click here
Rebreather World
       

Go Back   Rebreather World Rebreather Training CCR & SCR Rebreather Training

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18th October 2006, 07:01   #1 (permalink)
SiegeEngine II
 
Mdemon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SWUK
Posts: 2,035
Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute
Question So, what's different about Cave Diving?

What different techniques are required in cave diving please? I've seen a lot of posts suggesting that wreck skills aren't enough - what other topics are needed please?

I don't think my gear would fit in a cave, unless it's in Florida, but I would like to know a bit more about it!

Any good websites/books that you could recommend?

Many thanks!
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 07:50   #2 (permalink)
RBW Member
 
decoweenie's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 5,516
decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) View Original Post
I don't think my gear would fit in a cave, unless it's in Florida...
You would be surprised. The caves in France could be very big, especially most of the "tourist" caves in the Lot that I have been to. I have been in tunnels that you could drive a bus thru...

Take this as a grain of salt since I am/was only a newbie cave diver with only couple handful of cave dives, and max penetration only about 1km... Here are some random differences popped into mind:
  • Buoyancy skill required is similar to penetrating a wreck. Except I tend to stay closer to the ceiling in the cave than in a wreck (i.e. OC gas conservation, entanglement, etc)
  • Minimum safety equiment awareness. For example, 3 lights/diver for cave whereas it is not always essential in some wrecks
  • Jump and gap line techniques. This is not as frequent in France as is in Florida or Mexico.
  • Bail-out requirement. Could be different than wreck since you could stage the tanks along the route
  • Use of scooter. Much easier to use in most caves than inside most wrecks
  • Less interest things to see (per penetration length) than in a wreck.
  • Less chance of entanglement or sharp objects than a wreck.
  • More chance of encountering flow (i.e. current) inside a cave than a wreck.
  • Viz is more likely to be gin-clear in a cave.
Personally for me, the challenge of cave diving is the penetration distance more than the max depth. But, like all things, different strokes for different folks... :)

Last edited by decoweenie; 18th October 2006 at 08:57.. Reason: spelling
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 08:33   #3 (permalink)
RBW Member
 
Duncan Price's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 356
Duncan Price is a jewel in the rough Duncan Price is a jewel in the rough Duncan Price is a jewel in the rough Duncan Price is a jewel in the rough Duncan Price is a jewel in the rough Duncan Price is a jewel in the rough Duncan Price is a jewel in the rough
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) View Original Post
Personally for me, the challenge of cave diving is the penetration distance more than the max depth. But, like all things, different stroke for different folks... :)
Phi is only talking about caves in Continental Europe. In the UK the water is cold, murky and the passages often quite small. Wrecks were orignally designed for human traffic and have person sized holes whereas your equipment must be more streamlined if you want to get through some caves.

To get the most enjoyment out of UK cave diving you really need to be a caver - not only to get to the start of the dive but to be able to progress further than the end of the first sump.

There is no challenge to cave diving - its just a tool to get through the cave.
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 08:54   #4 (permalink)
RBW Member
 
decoweenie's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 5,516
decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

Quote: (Originally Posted by Duncan Price) View Original Post
Phi is only talking about caves in Continental Europe...
Yes, since they are the only caves I "dove" other than a deep sinkhole in Oman.

Cave diving in the UK (looks more like cave squeezing, cave crawling, cave digging, cave suffering) is just too much work to be enjoyable for a "tourist" diver like myself... :)
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 12:50   #5 (permalink)
SiegeEngine II
 
Mdemon's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SWUK
Posts: 2,035
Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) View Original Post
Cave diving in the UK (looks more like cave squeezing, cave crawling, cave digging, cave suffering) :)
LOL!

Thanks.

So, is it just equipment and line laying techniques? Is this a voodoo-free zone or is there more to it than being a caver who dives?

Rick Stanton made it look so easy at the dive show! :)
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 13:25   #6 (permalink)
Closed Account
 
onetime's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Not here
Posts: 0
onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold onetime is a splendid one to behold
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

Pretty good descriptions so far. I too only have a relative handful of cave dives but there are a couple of other differences between wrecks and caves.

One is that in a wreck there's a more logical layout than in a cave, at least in my opinion. Sure the wreck might be inverted or on its side making orientation difficult but I think there's a better chance of re-orienting yourself in a wreck than in a cave (guidelines not withstanding). You kind of know where engines, the bridge, etc will be on a boat even when it's upside down. You have no idea of how the cave is oriented unless you're very familiar with it. Heading down a passage in one direction looks awfully different than heading back through the same passage. Perspective can be difficult in caves, moreso than wrecks.

You can find yourself in an area of the wreck which will show daylight (assuming a day dive with clear enough water to show light) that will help in orientation, you're not likely to find such a spot in most caves.

There are techniques that are similar like anti silting kicks but then there are things like lost line procedures where you tie off to the spot you find yourself in and try to find your guide line. Sure, that could be used in wreck diving too but seems to be more of an issue in a cave.

There's the use of markers along the line to denote tie ins to the mainline, or directions of travel.

Probably the most bizarre occurrence, that is really unlikely on a wreck, is a lightning strike. When I frequented the Cave Diver's Forum (before I realized I just didn't have enough time to really get into cave diving) there was a great post about several divers returning from a dive and experiencing a lightning strike. Scary stuff.

Good websites:

Cave Diver's Forum:
Cave Diver's Forum - Cave Diving Resource Start

NACD:
National Association For Cave Diving

CDG:
Cave Diving Group

NSS/CDS:
Cave Diving Section of the National Speleological Society

Books:

The Cave Divers
Amazon.com: The Cave Divers: Books: Robert F. BurgessAmazon.com: The Cave Divers: Books: Robert F. Burgess
Caverns Measureless to Man
Amazon.com: Caverns Measureless to Man: Books: Sheck ExleyAmazon.com: Caverns Measureless to Man: Books: Sheck Exley
The Taming of the Slough
Amazon.com: The Taming of the Slough: Books: Sheck Exley,Tom Morris,Gerald J. Murphy,Michael Poucher,Sandra PoucherAmazon.com: The Taming of the Slough: Books: Sheck Exley,Tom Morris,Gerald J. Murphy,Michael Poucher,Sandra Poucher
Darkness Beckons
Amazon.com: Darkness Beckons: The History and Development of Cave Diving: Books: Martyn FarrAmazon.com: Darkness Beckons: The History and Development of Cave Diving: Books: Martyn Farr
Deep Into the Blue Holes
Amazon.com: Deep Into Blue Holes: Books: Rob PalmerAmazon.com: Deep Into Blue Holes: Books: Rob Palmer
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 13:34   #7 (permalink)
RBW Member
 
johnv's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 219
johnv is just really nice johnv is just really nice johnv is just really nice johnv is just really nice johnv is just really nice johnv is just really nice johnv is just really nice johnv is just really nice johnv is just really nice
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

>>So, is it just equipment and line laying techniques? Is this a voodoo-free
>>zone or is there more to it than being a caver who dives?

No voodoo, but you need to understand what can go wrong and what to do about it when it does. This is why there were so many deaths in Florida caves, open water divers (who didn't know any better) just swam in without understanding the problems.

It's no different to a CCR: you need to understand what can go wrong and what to do about it when it does

>>Rick Stanton made it look so easy at the dive show!

I have a saying: "it's a brave man that tries to copy rick" - but thats another story.
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 13:59   #8 (permalink)
.
 
trob09's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 754
trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all trob09 is a name known to all
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

The thing that I noticed most about my cave experience (which is very, very small) is a level of finesse that isn't present in most wreck diving. Cavers appear to effortlessly glide through the water, whereas wreckers seem to claw, hammer and drag themselves through. This is, of course, a generalization.

There is a fair amount of overlap between wreck and cave techniques from my experience. Take into consideration, though, that my OC technical instructor was also a cave diver, so I was heavily influenced on proper trim, kicking, line protocols, planning, etc. from the beginning. I didn't really learn anything "new" in my cave class, but it did take my game to a new level.
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 14:15   #9 (permalink)
Resident Selkie
 
hchoat's Avatar

 
Megladon
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL- USA
Posts: 291
hchoat is just really nice hchoat is just really nice hchoat is just really nice hchoat is just really nice hchoat is just really nice hchoat is just really nice hchoat is just really nice hchoat is just really nice hchoat is just really nice
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

Mdemon-

My perspective might be a little different- I spent about 8 years doing nothing but cave diving. Technique-wise, there aren't a lot of differences, as Trob 9 says, most serious cave divers have a higher level of finesse (at least in Florida and Mexico- where my experience is limited to).
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2006, 17:02   #10 (permalink)
RBW Member
 
gtzavelas's Avatar

 
Megalodon
RB80 Clone, CastoroC96, RGU
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Athens,Greece
Posts: 506
gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light
Re: So, what's different about Cave Diving?

Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime) View Original Post
The Darkness Beckons I think is the "bible" of the history and development of cave diving - a must for all cave divers.

And definitely Bill Stone's book:
Amazon.com: Beyond the Deep: The Deadly Descent Into the World's Most Treacherous Cave: Books: William Stone,Barbara am...Amazon.com: Beyond the Deep: The Deadly Descent Into the World's Most Treacherous Cave: Books: William Stone,Barbara am...
It has everything: caving exploration, cave diving exploration, rebreathers - one of the best explorations books!
(Offline)
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.us
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT. The time now is 14:37.


RebreatherWorld.Com 2005 - 2013
Rebreather World, RBW and the Rebreather World Logo are Trademarks
All rights reserved, no republishing of content without written permission.
By using this website you have agreed to our Terms & Conditions of Use

free counters

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798