CCR training standards?

texdiveguy

I have been 'told' that several training agencies allow one to enter and complete basic CCR training without prior OC experience or certf.-??

*I am not sure this is accurate but the person providing me the info. seemed quite certain it is possible to go direct into CCR. I know this question is probably asked quite often here, so excuse me in advance for broaching it again.

:)

Tienuts

I'm pretty sure IANTD has a CCR open water class.

If you were able to easily understand the gas physics, and were not rushed through the class, I think it would be the way to go.

Open circuit divers making the transition to CCR have a lot to "un-learn." When I took my class I found it difficult to stop my OC buoyancy habits. My Optima classmate, was DiverLee who had far more OC experience than I did - she found it even harder.

Crazyduck

Yes, no and maybe

Certain people have taken people from no certification directly to CCR; however that is a very rare occurrence.
The one that comes to mind was a rebreather manufacturer training his son. He had the units, time, was the instructor and the reason.

This is question has been debated here a few times; can we bring people into CCR directly?
Currently, it seems a case by case situation based on reason and available time.

You wouls have to have the following:
Buy the rebreather (the OEM might not sell it too you)
Find an instructor
Find a training agency and in some countries you need a health certification also to dive.
So it’s a gamble all around.

Also if something fails you end bailing out to open circuit.
So in some respects open circuit provides a fall back safety position for when the user thinks or feels there is real or potential problem.

It should be noted that rebreathers have a certain element of technical nature.
You are running two onboard tanks (oxygen and diluents) and you need a bailout tank.
You are running an extension of your own breathing systems that needs to be maintained and cleaned.
You have three oxygen sensors and probably a fourth sensor for independent verification.
Three first stages, potential for three pressure gauges and at least one second stage if not two.
You would have to understand and manage; oxygen handling skills. (fire and boom)
All to go diving verses hooking up a 1st stage to a tank.

However, for those of us that are certified for open circuit it does provide certain challenges when moving over.

Nice to see you here Alan.
Regards, Andrew

texdiveguy

The reason for the thread.....is that I was asked this question a while back and had no good reply to the person whom asked it.....it got me to thinking, so I asked a few others whom dive CCR and are known to me.....they indicated it is possible and that the OC/bailout needs plus the other co-related protocols were taught during the basic CCR program. I certainly can see the need for such a basic entry level CCR program of this type for those whom do not poss. prior OC experience and core knowledge base to draw from. Thanks for the input and insights and hope others reply. :)

mattmexico

yo

With IANTD you can enter directly openwater ccr. May take a little longer but you can go from openwater to expedition trimix and cave without ever taking a o/c breath ... in case you take ccr or scr bailout with you ...

greetings
Matt

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Mixaddict

I'm probably going against the grain a little with my thoughts on this subject. IMHO, CCR has no place with beginning dive students. I have taught a lot of OC open water classes over the years and now quite a few CCR classes. I firmly believe that there would be VERY FEW beginning open water students that would be capable of completing a CCR class safely and also have an enjoyable time.

I think that CCR skills are MUCH MUCH more demanding, more stressful, more task loading, and more demanding knowledge base wise than OC open water courses. Is it possible to have someone successfully complete a CCR class directly as a non-diver? Of course, but why? Why not let the student gain some underwater time in a much more benign environment, and let them gain the appreciation and joy of being under water before you stress them to the max in a CCR course.

I know that all of us on RBW think that everyone on the planet should be diving a CCR, but the fact is that CCRs require serious amounts of diligence not to kill ourselves. I just can't imagine that 99.99% of all new divers would return to diving after completing a CCR course if it was their first experience with diving. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that most divers would not even complete the course once started on CCR if it is their first experience.

Sure there are several things that need to be "unlearned" when you get on CCR from OC, but I think for the most part, most things cross over and I think it would be for most people irresponsible to put them on CCR to start with.

Just my $.02

Regards,
Randy

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Randy Thornton
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NEDIVER

I think the fastest one should enter is go through Advanced OW and take EANx and Adv EANx and Deco procedures. This will give you the skills to bail out to OC and pop bags to perform DECO comfortably on OC if you need to.

You can get through these relatively quickly. Find an instructor that teaches on the unit that you want to buy and take the above courses with that instructor, they will then give you an honest assessment if your skills are up to par to bail out in any situation to get your CCR cert to 130ft max depth.

Then put your hours into your unit and do drills every time your dive permits. This also gives you the option to put on an 80 cuft and do some fun shore dives where a CCR may not be the best. Or if you are traveling to a resort where you just want to do a fun and easy dive, you are confident in going out with the other cattle and enjoy the sport. What ever you choose, just make sure you are comfortable in what you are doing and don't exceed that comfort level.

Best of luck in your journey, once you go silent you will only go back when there is absolutely no way you can use your unit!

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"slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" TM
"Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting different results" Albert Einstein

HaisaiMatt

I don't understand what the gain would be.

Rebreathers are continuously getting better and less expensive, why rush it? Furthermore, why would you not want to know the skills associated with OC diving, are you really doing yourself a favor by skipping it.

You can go from not certified to instructor in under a year with some agencies. You could even do all of your dives in the same lake, but does it really make you a well qualified instructor?

Technical diving as we know it is more dangerous than commercial diving to similar depths because we have a minimal support infrastructure, why compound this by throwing inexperienced divers in the mix? The same wrecks, caves... are going to be there in a few years allowing divers to get the appropriate experience before going to a Rebreather, nothing is going anywhere.

Personally, I don't see any circumstances where you would gain anything.

lpgjag

IMVHO it is surely sensible to learn the basics of diving on OC then do a conversion to CCR. Better to 'unlearn' buoyancy than bone up on on gas tables in the first instance. Besides, if the CCR goes tits up you're on OC bailout anyway.

Diving is meant to be fun first, why increase your task loading unnecessarily?

I qualified OC (PADI Rescue and MSD) then qualified on an SCR Drager. I am converting to full CCR in January on an Inspo Classic. Not suggesting that this is the only development profile but it works for me and I've logged nearly 200 dives including two trips to Scapa. (did the Rec Trimix course on my last visit to the Flow and thoroughly enjoyed myself) I have enjoyed all my diving thusfar and found the transition from OC to SCR relatively painless. The Drager has been well modified, Poseidon first stage and twin side mounted 7L tanks that double as a stand as well as providing some 200 mins gas through my favoured 50 jet.

If I am as lucky with the Inspo transition I think my diving can only get better and better. Next step, CCR trimix and in time perhaps a Sentinel.....to dream is what makes us human!!