Golem and V4tec comparo...

silent running · 23rd December 2006, 03:42

Hi all, I looked on the BOV threads for info on a Golem/V4tec comparison, couldn't find many details. Anybody have experience with both? I know both have simple, compact designs that don't use o-rings in the barrel and both use the same 2nd stage. Apart from the fact the regulator body is incorporated into the DSV body on the V4, are there any other differences? Can both be used with either right or left flow/lp hose routing?

Also, is the Rebreatherlab BOV available anytime soon?

And has anybody put a BOV on a Prism yet?

Thanks, -Andy

cedricverdier · 23rd December 2006, 05:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi all, I looked on the BOV threads for info on a Golem/V4tec comparison, couldn't find many details. Anybody have experience with both? I know both have simple, compact designs that don't use o-rings in the barrel and both use the same 2nd stage. Apart from the fact the regulator body is incorporated into the DSV body on the V4, are there any other differences? Can both be used with either right or left flow/lp hose routing?

Also, is the Rebreatherlab BOV available anytime soon?

And has anybody put a BOV on a Prism yet?

Thanks, -Andy

Hi Andy,

For a brief look at various BOVs, there is an article named "Bail-out" in the Library. There are some comments about the Golem Gear BOV. Far better than anything else I tried.

Cheers

silent running · 23rd December 2006, 08:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by cedricverdier)

Hi Andy,

For a brief look at various BOVs, there is an article named "Bail-out" in the Library. There are some comments about the Golem Gear BOV. Far better than anything else I tried.

Cheers

Thanks for the info Cedric. But why the Golem BOV over the V4? I read the article but wasn't sure why you prefered one over the other. They both look up to the task, but how are they different? I don't mind the extra bulk of having the 2nd stage body seperate from the DSV ala Golem if for some reason that's the better idea. But it seems like keeping the whole thing smaller and incorporating the 2nd stage regulator body into the DSV is a the way to go. I could easily be missing something...

decoweenie · 23rd December 2006, 09:08

Andy,

I have both and dived them both so I will pipe in some personal comments. BTW, a lot of these have been discussed in the past so I will be brief with some random highlights:

V4TEC has larger ID than Golem.
Golem has a ball valve as the rotating mechanism so the action is very smooth.
When doing a negative pressure check, you must hold the V4TEC in your mouth since there is no oring sealing the OC from CC.
Golem comes with 2 different thread types: the standard and finer APD, and the courser thread suggested by Golem to minimize cross-threading.
The insert for the Golem course thread will not fit in standard APD hose.
V4TEC suggests zip-tie as hose retaining device. If using on YBOD, I have posted an easy mod to use the standard APD hose connection.
V4TEC can only take gas inlet from 1 side.
Golem is slightly taller, but has hard cover for 2nd stage.
Both manufacturers are super friendly and very pleasurable to deal with. Both are very reliable and provide excellent supports.

Mark Chase · 23rd December 2006, 09:14

I have the V4tec

Not being able to do proper negative tests is a major pain in the arse but they are bringing out a device to allow you to do it properly.

Apart from the Neg test issue and the single sided feed for the off board gas its a great bit of kit bot compared to the Golum and the Divematic its the most expensive and I would say it should be the cheapest as the others have the advantage of being able to hold negative test.

ATB

Mark Chase

silent running · 23rd December 2006, 10:22

Thanks a lot for detailed info Phi and Mark. I was having a hard time putting all the facts together in one place.

So the Golem has a ball shaped valve, does it have some sort of o-ring, or is the neg test integrity managed some other way, just by tight tolerences?

Interesting to not that V4 only has one direction of gas inlet as it's the opposite of the way I would prefer. But the larger bore may be more important.

As for the difference btw the hard and soft 2stage covers, is this any kind of issue?

Are both possible to turn with one hand?

Mark Chase · 23rd December 2006, 11:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Thanks a lot for detailed info Phi and Mark. I was having a hard time putting all the facts together in one place.

So the Golem has a ball shaped valve, does it have some sort of o-ring, or is the neg test integrity managed some other way, just by tight tolerences?

Interesting to not that V4 only has one direction of gas inlet as it's the opposite of the way I would prefer. But the larger bore may be more important.

As for the difference btw the hard and soft stage covers, is this any kind of issue?

Are both possible to turn with one hand?

Cant say i noticed an issue with the soft 2 stage covers myself.

WOB on the V4Tec is better than on the smaller bore KISS type I had before but not so as you'd get excited about it. It uses a Apex TX50 which I trust and have all the bits for so thats nice.

Single direction gas outlet puts the hose on the 02 side Which is daft. I use a gas connector on my shoulder and connect it to inboard for training dives and to a 1m long hose for off board on deep dives.

Its not a big problem IMHO but it does meen routing the bov hose across the back of my neck and down then up through the bungees to the first stage of my off board.

this means kitting up i have to have the cylinder connected and in place or a buddy who knows how to route the hose for me and plug it in.

ATB

Mark Chase

jhaaja · 23rd December 2006, 12:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Cant say i noticed an issue with the soft 2 stage covers myself.

WOB on the V4Tec is better than on the smaller bore KISS type I had before but not so as you'd get excited about it. It uses a Apex TX50 which I trust and have all the bits for so thats nice.

Single direction gas outlet puts the hose on the 02 side Which is daft. I use a gas connector on my shoulder and connect it to inboard for training dives and to a 1m long hose for off board on deep dives.

Its not a big problem IMHO but it does meen routing the bov hose across the back of my neck and down then up through the bungees to the first stage of my off board.

this means kitting up i have to have the cylinder connected and in place or a buddy who knows how to route the hose for me and plug it in.

ATB

Mark Chase

I have a long enough hose attached to the BOV. It runs with the exhale breathing hose, behind my neck and then just down on the outer side of the inhale lung. I have attached two bungee loops on the lung to keep the hose end with the QC6 in place. I can easily gear up, enter the water, attach the stage tank to my D-rings and then just couple the QCs.

Pictures would be good, I know...

cedricverdier · 23rd December 2006, 18:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Thanks for the info Cedric. But why the Golem BOV over the V4? I read the article but wasn't sure why you prefered one over the other. They both look up to the task, but how are they different? I don't mind the extra bulk of having the 2nd stage body seperate from the DSV ala Golem if for some reason that's the better idea. But it seems like keeping the whole thing smaller and incorporating the 2nd stage regulator body into the DSV is a the way to go. I could easily be missing something...

Mark and Phi gaves some very detailed explanations on the technical side, so I'll stay on the rebreather diver's side. The main difference between the 2 BOVs for me is at depth. When you use the BOV, it because you NEED it: so it has to be simple to operate and it has to breathe better than just "fine" at depth. So this is a very personal and subjective criteria but I tried both at depth (and I mean "deep"...) and I found the Golem one much better.

Cheers

diverklondike · 23rd December 2006, 20:30

I have the golem and have posted an article with lots of pictues etc about... I am extremely happy with it...

that being said i don't think you can go wrong with either unit.

dive safe..

mark

23rd December 2006, 03:42	#1 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,832	Golem and V4tec comparo... Hi all, I looked on the BOV threads for info on a Golem/V4tec comparison, couldn't find many details. Anybody have experience with both? I know both have simple, compact designs that don't use o-rings in the barrel and both use the same 2nd stage. Apart from the fact the regulator body is incorporated into the DSV body on the V4, are there any other differences? Can both be used with either right or left flow/lp hose routing? Also, is the Rebreatherlab BOV available anytime soon? And has anybody put a BOV on a Prism yet? Thanks, -Andy
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23rd December 2006, 05:15	#2 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 497	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi all, I looked on the BOV threads for info on a Golem/V4tec comparison, couldn't find many details. Anybody have experience with both? I know both have simple, compact designs that don't use o-rings in the barrel and both use the same 2nd stage. Apart from the fact the regulator body is incorporated into the DSV body on the V4, are there any other differences? Can both be used with either right or left flow/lp hose routing? Also, is the Rebreatherlab BOV available anytime soon? And has anybody put a BOV on a Prism yet? Thanks, -Andy Hi Andy, For a brief look at various BOVs, there is an article named "Bail-out" in the Library. There are some comments about the Golem Gear BOV. Far better than anything else I tried. Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
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23rd December 2006, 08:17	#3 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,832	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... Quote: (Originally Posted by cedricverdier) Hi Andy, For a brief look at various BOVs, there is an article named "Bail-out" in the Library. There are some comments about the Golem Gear BOV. Far better than anything else I tried. Cheers Thanks for the info Cedric. But why the Golem BOV over the V4? I read the article but wasn't sure why you prefered one over the other. They both look up to the task, but how are they different? I don't mind the extra bulk of having the 2nd stage body seperate from the DSV ala Golem if for some reason that's the better idea. But it seems like keeping the whole thing smaller and incorporating the 2nd stage regulator body into the DSV is a the way to go. I could easily be missing something...
(Offline)

23rd December 2006, 09:08	#4 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... Andy, I have both and dived them both so I will pipe in some personal comments. BTW, a lot of these have been discussed in the past so I will be brief with some random highlights: V4TEC has larger ID than Golem. Golem has a ball valve as the rotating mechanism so the action is very smooth. When doing a negative pressure check, you must hold the V4TEC in your mouth since there is no oring sealing the OC from CC. Golem comes with 2 different thread types: the standard and finer APD, and the courser thread suggested by Golem to minimize cross-threading. The insert for the Golem course thread will not fit in standard APD hose. V4TEC suggests zip-tie as hose retaining device. If using on YBOD, I have posted an easy mod to use the standard APD hose connection. V4TEC can only take gas inlet from 1 side. Golem is slightly taller, but has hard cover for 2nd stage. Both manufacturers are super friendly and very pleasurable to deal with. Both are very reliable and provide excellent supports. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM Last edited by decoweenie : 23rd December 2006 at 18:09.
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23rd December 2006, 09:14	#5 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,700	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... I have the V4tec Not being able to do proper negative tests is a major pain in the arse but they are bringing out a device to allow you to do it properly. Apart from the Neg test issue and the single sided feed for the off board gas its a great bit of kit bot compared to the Golum and the Divematic its the most expensive and I would say it should be the cheapest as the others have the advantage of being able to hold negative test. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

23rd December 2006, 10:22	#6 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,832	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... Thanks a lot for detailed info Phi and Mark. I was having a hard time putting all the facts together in one place. So the Golem has a ball shaped valve, does it have some sort of o-ring, or is the neg test integrity managed some other way, just by tight tolerences? Interesting to not that V4 only has one direction of gas inlet as it's the opposite of the way I would prefer. But the larger bore may be more important. As for the difference btw the hard and soft 2stage covers, is this any kind of issue? Are both possible to turn with one hand?
(Offline)

23rd December 2006, 11:50	#7 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,700	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Thanks a lot for detailed info Phi and Mark. I was having a hard time putting all the facts together in one place. So the Golem has a ball shaped valve, does it have some sort of o-ring, or is the neg test integrity managed some other way, just by tight tolerences? Interesting to not that V4 only has one direction of gas inlet as it's the opposite of the way I would prefer. But the larger bore may be more important. As for the difference btw the hard and soft stage covers, is this any kind of issue? Are both possible to turn with one hand? Cant say i noticed an issue with the soft 2 stage covers myself. WOB on the V4Tec is better than on the smaller bore KISS type I had before but not so as you'd get excited about it. It uses a Apex TX50 which I trust and have all the bits for so thats nice. Single direction gas outlet puts the hose on the 02 side Which is daft. I use a gas connector on my shoulder and connect it to inboard for training dives and to a 1m long hose for off board on deep dives. Its not a big problem IMHO but it does meen routing the bov hose across the back of my neck and down then up through the bungees to the first stage of my off board. this means kitting up i have to have the cylinder connected and in place or a buddy who knows how to route the hose for me and plug it in. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

23rd December 2006, 12:59	#8 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 884	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Cant say i noticed an issue with the soft 2 stage covers myself. WOB on the V4Tec is better than on the smaller bore KISS type I had before but not so as you'd get excited about it. It uses a Apex TX50 which I trust and have all the bits for so thats nice. Single direction gas outlet puts the hose on the 02 side Which is daft. I use a gas connector on my shoulder and connect it to inboard for training dives and to a 1m long hose for off board on deep dives. Its not a big problem IMHO but it does meen routing the bov hose across the back of my neck and down then up through the bungees to the first stage of my off board. this means kitting up i have to have the cylinder connected and in place or a buddy who knows how to route the hose for me and plug it in. ATB Mark Chase I have a long enough hose attached to the BOV. It runs with the exhale breathing hose, behind my neck and then just down on the outer side of the inhale lung. I have attached two bungee loops on the lung to keep the hose end with the QC6 in place. I can easily gear up, enter the water, attach the stage tank to my D-rings and then just couple the QCs. Pictures would be good, I know...
(Offline)

23rd December 2006, 18:03	#9 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 497	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Thanks for the info Cedric. But why the Golem BOV over the V4? I read the article but wasn't sure why you prefered one over the other. They both look up to the task, but how are they different? I don't mind the extra bulk of having the 2nd stage body seperate from the DSV ala Golem if for some reason that's the better idea. But it seems like keeping the whole thing smaller and incorporating the 2nd stage regulator body into the DSV is a the way to go. I could easily be missing something... Mark and Phi gaves some very detailed explanations on the technical side, so I'll stay on the rebreather diver's side. The main difference between the 2 BOVs for me is at depth. When you use the BOV, it because you NEED it: so it has to be simple to operate and it has to breathe better than just "fine" at depth. So this is a very personal and subjective criteria but I tried both at depth (and I mean "deep"...) and I found the Golem one much better. Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
(Offline)

23rd December 2006, 20:30	#10 (permalink)
diverklondike Just one of the Peasants Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,613	Re: Golem and V4tec comparo... I have the golem and have posted an article with lots of pictues etc about... I am extremely happy with it... that being said i don't think you can go wrong with either unit. dive safe.. mark
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