why NOT using OC/DSV?

The Purist · 9th January 2006, 08:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Changing the status quo is not easy in this situation. Powerful basic survival instincts kick in and tell you 'hey I can breathe so what!' your less powerful intellect tells you that what your breathing is poisonous - but your basic instinct says 'im breathing - all is well - why the hell should I stop breathing - even for a moment - spit out the mouthpiece fumble for a 2nd stage' - etc etc yeh I know its bad but at least Im breathing'. 'Maybe Ill just sit here and rest for a while - I am feeling quite Ok about all this - cant really be bothered too much - feeling ok really - just need to rest a while....lights start to dim.....

Mine was similar but my reaction was extreme anxiety - every fibre of my being was screaming at me to just go for the surface, but the rational part of my mind was saying 'it's just CO2, stay in control'. Tho apparently from the outside I was doing some really odd stuff I had this split feeling of terror and calm. In that condition there was absolutely no way that I was physically able to remove the thing I was breathing from even though I knew that what I was breathing was doing me harm. Deploying a stage was about as achievable as going for a quick jog up Everest...

One twist of the OC/CC switch and I knew I was now on something that wasn't trying to do me in, and that knowledge then kicked the rational side of my mind back into control so I could sort out the switch to my deep stage. I was confident enough to get back on the loop by half way up the ascent, just controlling my breathing and staying alert for any recurring CO2 signs.

I'd now recognise CO2 much earlier and hopefully wouldn't get so disabled by it, but the simple availability of clean gas is a godsend when you need it.

Keith

nskdrs · 9th January 2006, 09:35

[quote=Drmike] I have been completely disabilitated by CO2 to the extent that I couldnt even move

Same for me. I was simulating a CO2-hit in shallow (1m) waters under surveillance with LAR, simple DSV. I got badly stuck in my ensoufflement, it was almost impossible for me to hold breath a few seconds and come off the loop. A scenario with stress, taskload and depth involved left me horrified.
The strongest PRO BOV I can think of.

IMHO haven't read any strong CONS BOV as I type.

One more thing,
forgive me to put Speculation-mode ON:

It appears to me the highcost units hide behind the (solvable) CE / WOB "issue" to justify regular DSV, which might make the unit look "always-ready" for military application.

Beeing a highcost CCR-designer I would primarily care to meet mil-specs and use the "market" for beta testing. ( Not sure how magnetic OTS-CL - designs fit in here )

Its obvious, f.e. Boris ( and sure others ) clearly want to be successor's of all the MK's still in service all over the world, suppose (E)CCR's are still a valid part of modern warfare ( Don't know )

A mil-mindset will always value the ( bubblefree ) mission first, securing soldiers life is secondary.

Anyhow,
Highly appreciate to have all you guys discussing this well stretched topic ( again )

cheers
hoffi

CCR900 · 9th January 2006, 14:56

The NEMO breaths well at depth, though it had crossed my mind that I was putting all my eggs in one basket.

Yes "jradomski" I agree the build quality is good, I have not had problem (to date) though I knows others that have (very poor positive tests and a wet breath on OC). I have gone OC at depth and with a cool head had no notable breathing issues.

Maybe its over kill but maybe the OCDSV should be used only for the first few minutes (therefore plugged into the small on board tanks only) and after that you bail to your standard regs for the trip home.

Hoffi - I am in the process of switching to said unit but I think the view on not using OCDVs on the Ouroborus for example is down to the manufacturers personal point of view (which I believe is OCDSV only to used with full face).
I hear AP Valves has been looking at a safe OCDSV for a while but is still not prepared to jump in (though I hear their prototype is very cool and VERY low profile (a bit like their ADV)).

Fil

decoweenie · 9th January 2006, 15:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900)

I hear AP Valves has been looking at a safe OCDSV for a while but is still not prepared to jump in (though I hear their prototype is very cool and VERY low profile (a bit like their ADV)).

I got the NEMO from Joe since I saw Fil's NEMO in Sharm last year. It is nice and compact, but I still miss my Jetsam BOV from the fit/size POV...

I do wish APV would hurry up and release their BOV. If it is as low profile as their ADV, it would be awesome. And we wouldn't have worry about the bl$$dy expen$ive connectors.

***Beanie*** · 9th January 2006, 15:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I do wish APV would hurry up and release their BOV. If it is as low profile as their ADV, it would be awesome. And we wouldn't have worry about the bl$$dy expen$ive connectors.

We can dream though

ROB DAVIE · 9th January 2006, 15:24

Open Circuit / Dive Surface Valve or OC/DSV is such a clumsy term.

Bail-Out Valve or BOV is far more descriptive of what we use it for, and easier to print as well!!

CCR900 · 9th January 2006, 15:27

A year ago Martin was asking for ideas for the name, there were a few goodens like Closed to Open Circuit Knob, so a diver would diving sucking on a CO*K.

Beanie maybe one day soon you will be eating flying pig sausages. Evo took a while in coming as did their ADV but both items sold well upon their arrival.

F

ROB DAVIE · 9th January 2006, 16:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900)

Beanie maybe one day soon you will be eating flying pig sausages......
F

God, I hope not!

Rob

diverklondike · 9th January 2006, 18:43

Has anyone heard anything from AP in reference to the OC/DSV lately??

M

***Louby Lou*** · 9th January 2006, 18:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900)

so a diver would diving sucking on a CO*K.

Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900)

Evo took a while in coming as did their ADV but both items sold well upon their arrival.

Very true but until they get the damm thing right its still chuffing hopeless...

As for the BOV, I've seen it, it's rather loverly, they were 'testing' it again when AP dived with us on my MOD1. Am in too minds to hold out for the AP one or look at something like the Divematics

View Poll Results: I use
DSV	47	47.00%
OC / DSV	50	50.00%
FFM OC / DSV	6	6.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

9th January 2006, 08:53	#21 (permalink)
The Purist New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 99	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Changing the status quo is not easy in this situation. Powerful basic survival instincts kick in and tell you 'hey I can breathe so what!' your less powerful intellect tells you that what your breathing is poisonous - but your basic instinct says 'im breathing - all is well - why the hell should I stop breathing - even for a moment - spit out the mouthpiece fumble for a 2nd stage' - etc etc yeh I know its bad but at least Im breathing'. 'Maybe Ill just sit here and rest for a while - I am feeling quite Ok about all this - cant really be bothered too much - feeling ok really - just need to rest a while....lights start to dim..... Mine was similar but my reaction was extreme anxiety - every fibre of my being was screaming at me to just go for the surface, but the rational part of my mind was saying 'it's just CO2, stay in control'. Tho apparently from the outside I was doing some really odd stuff I had this split feeling of terror and calm. In that condition there was absolutely no way that I was physically able to remove the thing I was breathing from even though I knew that what I was breathing was doing me harm. Deploying a stage was about as achievable as going for a quick jog up Everest... One twist of the OC/CC switch and I knew I was now on something that wasn't trying to do me in, and that knowledge then kicked the rational side of my mind back into control so I could sort out the switch to my deep stage. I was confident enough to get back on the loop by half way up the ascent, just controlling my breathing and staying alert for any recurring CO2 signs. I'd now recognise CO2 much earlier and hopefully wouldn't get so disabled by it, but the simple availability of clean gas is a godsend when you need it. Keith
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9th January 2006, 09:35	#22 (permalink)
nskdrs New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Not Bought Yet Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: germany Posts: 98	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? [quote=Drmike] I have been completely disabilitated by CO2 to the extent that I couldnt even move Same for me. I was simulating a CO2-hit in shallow (1m) waters under surveillance with LAR, simple DSV. I got badly stuck in my ensoufflement, it was almost impossible for me to hold breath a few seconds and come off the loop. A scenario with stress, taskload and depth involved left me horrified. The strongest PRO BOV I can think of. IMHO haven't read any strong CONS BOV as I type. One more thing, forgive me to put Speculation-mode ON: It appears to me the highcost units hide behind the (solvable) CE / WOB "issue" to justify regular DSV, which might make the unit look "always-ready" for military application. Beeing a highcost CCR-designer I would primarily care to meet mil-specs and use the "market" for beta testing. ( Not sure how magnetic OTS-CL - designs fit in here ) Its obvious, f.e. Boris ( and sure others ) clearly want to be successor's of all the MK's still in service all over the world, suppose (E)CCR's are still a valid part of modern warfare ( Don't know ) A mil-mindset will always value the ( bubblefree ) mission first, securing soldiers life is secondary. Anyhow, Highly appreciate to have all you guys discussing this well stretched topic ( again ) cheers hoffi
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9th January 2006, 14:56	#23 (permalink)
CCR900 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: England Posts: 332	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? The NEMO breaths well at depth, though it had crossed my mind that I was putting all my eggs in one basket. Yes "jradomski" I agree the build quality is good, I have not had problem (to date) though I knows others that have (very poor positive tests and a wet breath on OC). I have gone OC at depth and with a cool head had no notable breathing issues. Maybe its over kill but maybe the OCDSV should be used only for the first few minutes (therefore plugged into the small on board tanks only) and after that you bail to your standard regs for the trip home. Hoffi - I am in the process of switching to said unit but I think the view on not using OCDVs on the Ouroborus for example is down to the manufacturers personal point of view (which I believe is OCDSV only to used with full face). I hear AP Valves has been looking at a safe OCDSV for a while but is still not prepared to jump in (though I hear their prototype is very cool and VERY low profile (a bit like their ADV)). Fil
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9th January 2006, 15:04	#24 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900) I hear AP Valves has been looking at a safe OCDSV for a while but is still not prepared to jump in (though I hear their prototype is very cool and VERY low profile (a bit like their ADV)). I got the NEMO from Joe since I saw Fil's NEMO in Sharm last year. It is nice and compact, but I still miss my Jetsam BOV from the fit/size POV... I do wish APV would hurry up and release their BOV. If it is as low profile as their ADV, it would be awesome. And we wouldn't have worry about the bl$$dy expen$ive connectors. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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9th January 2006, 15:15	#25 (permalink)
*Beanie* give a man an inch....... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,174	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I do wish APV would hurry up and release their BOV. If it is as low profile as their ADV, it would be awesome. And we wouldn't have worry about the bl$$dy expen$ive connectors. We can dream though __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
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9th January 2006, 15:24	#26 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? Open Circuit / Dive Surface Valve or OC/DSV is such a clumsy term. Bail-Out Valve or BOV is far more descriptive of what we use it for, and easier to print as well!! __________________ [SIZE=2]"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving [U]WHEN PIGS FLY[/U]!!"--GI3[/SIZE]
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9th January 2006, 15:27	#27 (permalink)
CCR900 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: England Posts: 332	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? A year ago Martin was asking for ideas for the name, there were a few goodens like Closed to Open Circuit Knob, so a diver would diving sucking on a CO*K. Beanie maybe one day soon you will be eating flying pig sausages. Evo took a while in coming as did their ADV but both items sold well upon their arrival. F
(Offline)

9th January 2006, 16:44	#28 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900) Beanie maybe one day soon you will be eating flying pig sausages...... F God, I hope not! Rob __________________ [SIZE=2]"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving [U]WHEN PIGS FLY[/U]!!"--GI3[/SIZE]
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9th January 2006, 18:43	#29 (permalink)
diverklondike Just one of the Peasants Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,613	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? Has anyone heard anything from AP in reference to the OC/DSV lately?? M
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9th January 2006, 18:55	#30 (permalink)
*Louby Lou* XLVI WC! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Roman Corinium! Posts: 1,019	Re: why NOT using OC/DSV? Quote: (Originally Posted by CCR900) so a diver would diving sucking on a COK. Quote:* (Originally Posted by CCR900) Evo took a while in coming as did their ADV but both items sold well upon their arrival. Very true but until they get the damm thing right its still chuffing hopeless... As for the BOV, I've seen it, it's rather loverly, they were 'testing' it again when AP dived with us on my MOD1. Am in too minds to hold out for the AP one or look at something like the Divematics __________________ Miss Lou x Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreatherworld Terms and Conditions - Please read! Outlaw Divers - Sssh we're diving! You heff vays uff dealink vis zem, oh Miss Rebreather World Admin! - Rob Davie Feb 06
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