To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit

lizardland · 26th November 2007, 09:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Here's the fallacy: NO YOU CAN'T. Not in any sort of real C02 hit. ESPECIALLY not deep.

By the time you can even think that you need to do it, you cannot hold your breath for 2 seconds. You'll drown. To think otherwise is wishful thinking. I used to believe that what you write was true. My experience proved otherwise. I'm wiser now...

Dave

I flooded my CK a couple of weeks ago (before I fitted the Mares BOV) when I went diving with my dil switched off and was having to add dil by breathing my OC offboard gas into the loop (OK, I admit my argon bottle had fallen out of place, I couldn't reach the dil valve for it and there was no way I was surface swimming back to shore just to fix it). Anyway, I cocked up (thought the DSV was fully closed) and let a load of water into the loop and after a few minutes I could feel CO2 rising. Luckily I bailed early, even so I was struggling holding my breath in the time it took to get off the loop and onto the reg bungeed around my neck, even managing to suck a load of water in at the same time. I freedive and spearfish and I do apnea training most days, I can do 6min+ in a static apnea and I was struggling with a couple of seconds to get to a reg in a minor CO2 event. I've no doubt that trying to get to another reg with a major event happening is not going to be a good day.

Gilles · 26th November 2007, 10:11

I doubt there is no issue that has as wide of a consensus. Especially from those of us who use BOV's
Anyone dare express a different opinion..

Flame ready

Get ready to be

Hanssing · 26th November 2007, 10:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

......I can do 6min+ in a static apnea and I was struggling with a couple of seconds to get to a reg in a minor CO2 event. I've no doubt that trying to get to another reg with a major event happening is not going to be a good day.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

In my incident, I was totally task saturated at 200 (feet) on an anchor line in a strong current.. had only one hand to use (letting go of the line there a hundred miles offshore with the current and deco I needed to do = death), and it was *all* could do to turn the knob. No shit. If I had needed to grab an offboard reg, even without closing the DSV... I would be dead today. C02 comes on so fast it's positively terrifying. it's the ONLY thing I fear diving.

F**k that

I'm not waiting until 50hrs on a unit, for a modification that was planned before purchase - I'm ordering my BOV TODAY!

Nicolai

Johnny Christensen · 26th November 2007, 13:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Hanssing)

I'm not waiting until 50hrs on a unit, for a modification that was planned before purchase - I'm ordering my BOV TODAY!

Nicolai

Wise move. I wanted one on my setup before I got my own rebreather. Watched how easy it was for the CisLunar divers to make the switch.
But the first 150 hours I dived with the standart mouthpiece thinking that I could handle the situation.
That changed when I got my first experience with hypercapnia.

The BOV is truly your friend when you are in trouble. GolemGear version works well.

Hanssing · 26th November 2007, 13:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Johnny Christensen)

Wise move.
....
The BOV is truly your friend when you are in trouble. GolemGear version works well.

The contenders are Palegian and Golem. I'm partial to the Pelagian due to size (actaully did order it right after the post, but the order got bounced...).

However, through email I have just been told by Andy (Pelagian), that there's no ready-made HUD-mounting that can be adapted for the rEvodream-HUD. And I really like that I'm able to completely remove the breathing-hose assembly for cleaning and storing on the rEvo, so I would like some sort of easy-to-remove HUD-mount.

So, anyone dive a pelagian/golem with HUD?

Please answer with pics

(Edit: Allready asked outlaw for some detailed pictures of his setup)

Nicolai - Sorry for the hijack.

Stephane · 26th November 2007, 14:21

Hello Nicolai,

Quote:

So, anyone dive a pelagian/golem with HUD?

Yes, I'm diving the Golem BOV, the threaded version.
The HUD support fits perfectly, Ray hoses are a bit wider but with some bicycle inner tube, everything is fine.

The double HUD needs some tweaking to be mounted, I will post a picture of it tonight.

A nice picture from Captain's rig:

**Dave Sutton** · 26th November 2007, 15:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

I freedive and spearfish and I do apnea training most days, I can do 6min+ in a static apnea and I was struggling with a couple of seconds to get to a reg in a minor CO2 event. .

Well said. I also freedive and spearfish (more often actually than rebreather diving... a daily freediving hour at sunrise is my habit, and I regularly fish in 40 feet of water), and do static apnea for 4+ mins regularly (you're doing great at 6... I'm *very* impressed... don't die in the pool!).

C02 is the only breathing trigger as we both know, and apnea diving trains one to be able to *partially* suppress the C02 "breathe now" urge. As you know, a VERY good apnea diver can breath-hold to unconciousness, and every year a few people do just that m(never mind shallow water blackout.. another issue). If you correlate what we both felt, both of us being freedivers and unable to suppress the "breathe now need", it ought to be obvious that someone without this skill set is gonna do worse. NOBODY, no matter what, can deal with elevated C02. It's a killer.

Dave

**Dave Sutton** · 26th November 2007, 15:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Hanssing)

I have just been told by Andy (Pelagian), that there's no ready-made HUD-mounting that can be adapted for the rEvodream-HUD.

Email me.. I'll show you how it done. The mount is a non-issue. I made mine for the BOV in a few minutes.

Dave

lof · 27th November 2007, 02:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Hanssing)

The contenders are Palegian and Golem. I'm partial to the Pelagian due to size (actaully did order it right after the post, but the order got bounced...).

However, through email I have just been told by Andy (Pelagian), that there's no ready-made HUD-mounting that can be adapted for the rEvodream-HUD. And I really like that I'm able to completely remove the breathing-hose assembly for cleaning and storing on the rEvo, so I would like some sort of easy-to-remove HUD-mount.

So, anyone dive a pelagian/golem with HUD?

Please answer with pics

(Edit: Allready asked outlaw for some detailed pictures of his setup)

Nicolai - Sorry for the hijack.

I Have HUD on all my BOVs.

You could get two of these to mount dual HUDs
Golem Gear, Inc. - Golem HUD holder for Hammerhead DIVA

They rachet around the nut so you can adjust them for FFM.

brinoz · 27th November 2007, 19:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane)

Hello Nicolai,

Yes, I'm diving the Golem BOV, the threaded version.
The HUD support fits perfectly, Ray hoses are a bit wider but with some bicycle inner tube, everything is fine.

The double HUD needs some tweaking to be mounted, I will post a picture of it tonight.

Hi stephane,

where is the picture of the double HUD ?
A BOV is quite expensive so I prefer to have as many information as possible in order to make a good choice.

Bruno

26th November 2007, 09:30	#31 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,189	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Here's the fallacy: NO YOU CAN'T. Not in any sort of real C02 hit. ESPECIALLY not deep. By the time you can even think that you need to do it, you cannot hold your breath for 2 seconds. You'll drown. To think otherwise is wishful thinking. I used to believe that what you write was true. My experience proved otherwise. I'm wiser now... Dave I flooded my CK a couple of weeks ago (before I fitted the Mares BOV) when I went diving with my dil switched off and was having to add dil by breathing my OC offboard gas into the loop (OK, I admit my argon bottle had fallen out of place, I couldn't reach the dil valve for it and there was no way I was surface swimming back to shore just to fix it). Anyway, I cocked up (thought the DSV was fully closed) and let a load of water into the loop and after a few minutes I could feel CO2 rising. Luckily I bailed early, even so I was struggling holding my breath in the time it took to get off the loop and onto the reg bungeed around my neck, even managing to suck a load of water in at the same time. I freedive and spearfish and I do apnea training most days, I can do 6min+ in a static apnea and I was struggling with a couple of seconds to get to a reg in a minor CO2 event. I've no doubt that trying to get to another reg with a major event happening is not going to be a good day. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f**ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler Last edited by lizardland : 26th November 2007 at 09:32.*
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26th November 2007, 10:11	#32 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 761	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit I doubt there is no issue that has as wide of a consensus. Especially from those of us who use BOV's Anyone dare express a different opinion.. Flame ready Get ready to be __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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26th November 2007, 10:42	#33 (permalink)
Hanssing flap-flop ..... flap-flop Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 351	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) ......I can do 6min+ in a static apnea and I was struggling with a couple of seconds to get to a reg in a minor CO2 event. I've no doubt that trying to get to another reg with a major event happening is not going to be a good day. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) In my incident, I was totally task saturated at 200 (feet) on an anchor line in a strong current.. had only one hand to use (letting go of the line there a hundred miles offshore with the current and deco I needed to do = death), and it was all could do to turn the knob. No shit. If I had needed to grab an offboard reg, even without closing the DSV... I would be dead today. C02 comes on so fast it's positively terrifying. it's the ONLY thing I fear diving. F**k that I'm not waiting until 50hrs on a unit, for a modification that was planned before purchase - I'm ordering my BOV TODAY! Nicolai __________________ Woohooo - I can change my rEvo! Its going to be bitchin' tricked out piece of gear
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26th November 2007, 13:31	#34 (permalink)
Johnny Christensen Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 296	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Hanssing) I'm not waiting until 50hrs on a unit, for a modification that was planned before purchase - I'm ordering my BOV TODAY! Nicolai Wise move. I wanted one on my setup before I got my own rebreather. Watched how easy it was for the CisLunar divers to make the switch. But the first 150 hours I dived with the standart mouthpiece thinking that I could handle the situation. That changed when I got my first experience with hypercapnia. The BOV is truly your friend when you are in trouble. GolemGear version works well. __________________ www.johnnychristensen.com Wreckphotography from the cold north
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26th November 2007, 13:41	#35 (permalink)
Hanssing flap-flop ..... flap-flop Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 351	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Johnny Christensen) Wise move. .... The BOV is truly your friend when you are in trouble. GolemGear version works well. The contenders are Palegian and Golem. I'm partial to the Pelagian due to size (actaully did order it right after the post, but the order got bounced...). However, through email I have just been told by Andy (Pelagian), that there's no ready-made HUD-mounting that can be adapted for the rEvodream-HUD. And I really like that I'm able to completely remove the breathing-hose assembly for cleaning and storing on the rEvo, so I would like some sort of easy-to-remove HUD-mount. So, anyone dive a pelagian/golem with HUD? Please answer with pics (Edit: Allready asked outlaw for some detailed pictures of his setup) Nicolai - Sorry for the hijack. __________________ Woohooo - I can change my rEvo! Its going to be bitchin' tricked out piece of gear Last edited by Hanssing : 26th November 2007 at 13:53. Reason: Hijack..
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26th November 2007, 14:21	#36 (permalink)
Stephane Hey! Ho! Let's go! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 725	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Hello Nicolai, Quote: So, anyone dive a pelagian/golem with HUD? Yes, I'm diving the Golem BOV, the threaded version. The HUD support fits perfectly, Ray hoses are a bit wider but with some bicycle inner tube, everything is fine. The double HUD needs some tweaking to be mounted, I will post a picture of it tonight. A nice picture from Captain's rig: __________________ Stéphane Hammer-rEvo powered! Last edited by Stephane : 26th November 2007 at 14:25.
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26th November 2007, 15:49	#37 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,512	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) I freedive and spearfish and I do apnea training most days, I can do 6min+ in a static apnea and I was struggling with a couple of seconds to get to a reg in a minor CO2 event. . Well said. I also freedive and spearfish (more often actually than rebreather diving... a daily freediving hour at sunrise is my habit, and I regularly fish in 40 feet of water), and do static apnea for 4+ mins regularly (you're doing great at 6... I'm very impressed... don't die in the pool!). C02 is the only breathing trigger as we both know, and apnea diving trains one to be able to partially suppress the C02 "breathe now" urge. As you know, a VERY good apnea diver can breath-hold to unconciousness, and every year a few people do just that m(never mind shallow water blackout.. another issue). If you correlate what we both felt, both of us being freedivers and unable to suppress the "breathe now need", it ought to be obvious that someone without this skill set is gonna do worse. NOBODY, no matter what, can deal with elevated C02. It's a killer. Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
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26th November 2007, 15:51	#38 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,512	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Hanssing) I have just been told by Andy (Pelagian), that there's no ready-made HUD-mounting that can be adapted for the rEvodream-HUD. Email me.. I'll show you how it done. The mount is a non-issue. I made mine for the BOV in a few minutes. Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
(Online)

27th November 2007, 02:11	#39 (permalink)
lof RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 457	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Hanssing) The contenders are Palegian and Golem. I'm partial to the Pelagian due to size (actaully did order it right after the post, but the order got bounced...). However, through email I have just been told by Andy (Pelagian), that there's no ready-made HUD-mounting that can be adapted for the rEvodream-HUD. And I really like that I'm able to completely remove the breathing-hose assembly for cleaning and storing on the rEvo, so I would like some sort of easy-to-remove HUD-mount. So, anyone dive a pelagian/golem with HUD? Please answer with pics (Edit: Allready asked outlaw for some detailed pictures of his setup) Nicolai - Sorry for the hijack. I Have HUD on all my BOVs. You could get two of these to mount dual HUDs Golem Gear, Inc. - Golem HUD holder for Hammerhead DIVA They rachet around the nut so you can adjust them for FFM. __________________ Jakub Golem Gear ShopKeeper www.golemgear.com
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27th November 2007, 19:31	#40 (permalink)
brinoz New Member Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 50	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane) Hello Nicolai, Yes, I'm diving the Golem BOV, the threaded version. The HUD support fits perfectly, Ray hoses are a bit wider but with some bicycle inner tube, everything is fine. The double HUD needs some tweaking to be mounted, I will post a picture of it tonight. Hi stephane, where is the picture of the double HUD ? A BOV is quite expensive so I prefer to have as many information as possible in order to make a good choice. Bruno
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