To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit

***diverklondike*** · 24th November 2007, 14:44

This is the split thread from the NACD Cave Summit Report Thread

Mark Chase · 24th November 2007, 15:12

To me a BOV is a must have piece of kit. The more i read about people having C02 hits the more i realize the chances of going OC after a hit are slim without it.

My BOV was plumbed into inboard 3ltr which i try to keep at 230+ bar and was designed as immediate bailout with a switch after a half dozen breaths on to large off board tanks.

Following debate with Dr Mike and a re think i decided to go fully off board with my bailout so no its connected to a 10ltr blown to 250bar on any dive below 60 and a 7ltr on any dive up to 60m.

90% of my diving allowed me to run a surface breathable gas for bailout. 16% will do me down to 80 ish m and its breathable on the surface.

If i go past 80 i need another deep bailout which may be hypoxic on the surface, So i use a gas connect system. I jump in with bottom mix plumbed in as I rightly or wrongly believe nothing much is likely to happen in the first 5mins and with my wing i can head far enough out of the water to spit the loop.

However on ascent i will be spending considerable time in the shallows so I will disconnect my BOV feed and reconnect to 50% at 21m

In oder to ID the tanks the BOV feed is on a 2m hose and the tanks have 6" whips on them. So ID the tank and connect feed.

If tanks need to be handed off then I can reconnect the BOV to inboard (needs assistance to do easily but can be done solo.) Or i can connect to an alternative mix.

All off boards have their own OC regs attached.

I have sat and thought about it and had lots of experimental goes at configs but this is the one i like the best so far.

ATB

Mark

Drmike · 25th November 2007, 09:02

I think everyone is missing the main advantage of a BOV.

Having a bov promotes an earlier bail. which I believe is a big safety feature

I found when diving without a BOV the percieved hassle of bailing to OC (closing dsv, spitting it out, locating and fumbling for offboard 2nd stage reg and shoving it in me gob) the large stress raiser of having to come off the loop, was enough to encourage me to delay bailing until I was VERY sure I was having a problem. My thought process was , 'I dont want to go to the hassle of bailing unless I am very sure Im having an issue ...so lets wait a fe moments longer and see if I start feeling worse'.

With a BOV and the easy turn handle bail I found that it encouraged me to bail at the slightest feeling that something wasnt right. Bailing with a BOV is far far less of a stress raiser also which can be a critical thing during CO2/Stress/panic scenario when your trying to reduce your rmv. In addition bailing with a BOV in a way doenst feel like your coming off the loop in a way as teh dsv stays in your mouth. Changing the status quo in my experience is a major stress raiser during stressful times (one reason why it can be impossible to even come off the loop if it requires you to 1) stop breathing 2) spit out your dsv. With a BOV it feels significantly less like anything has changed and you dont have to pause breathing. (the latter point IMHO is absolutely critical to appreciate)

The longer one delays to bail the higher up the CO2 spiral ride to death we are and the harder it is to recover - and if high enough we cant recover (and likely cant even bail)

This is why I even preffer the side reg on the nova over a BOV (I dont use BOV with the nova) because with the side reg Its even easier to bail (get fresh gas) just by nose breathing - the end result is that I automatically and habitually start nose breathing whenever I feel almost impercievable levels of CO2

basically:
Side reg = fastest encouraged bail* at earliest possible sign, no stress raiser
BOV = early encouraged bail, min stress raiser
OC = slowest encouraged bail, highest stress raiser, risk of flooding loop,

*with the side reg I wouldnt even call it a bail as its more a prevention rather than a cure.

Most BOV dont breathe well so I would consider them only as a 1st step on OC bail. I would only have it plumbed into 1st deep bail tank then when ready to switch gases should be perfectly calm enough by then to come off the bov and go to offboard 2nd stages.
IMO gas switchblocks are stupidly dangerous and the risks dont outweigh the benefits

paulraymaekers · 25th November 2007, 09:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

This is why I even preffer the side reg on the nova over a BOV (I dont use BOV with the nova) because with the side reg Its even easier to bail (get fresh gas) just by nose breathing

hi mike, just a very short question aside...
did you alter the spring of the OPV in your nova?? (to exhale easier by nose?)

regards
paul

Drmike · 25th November 2007, 09:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

hi mike, just a very short question aside...
did you alter the spring of the OPV in your nova?? (to exhale easier by nose?)

regards
paul

Hi Paul,

Nope, Im only taking a few breaths and when I exhale (nose) most of the exhaust gas blows out from around the FFM seal as well as the mask OPV. Pulling the bottom of the FFM forward helps but I dont bother. The point is the nose breathing is only for a few santity breaths and done at the 1st and earliest possible time long before your RMV is going to be an issue with WOB of the exhaust cycle. If after nose breathing fsanity breath I cant clear my head then its time for full bail (dsv replaced by p-ported off board OC reg)

I dont think you can and should stay nose breathing for anything more than a few sanity breaths seeing as WOB exhale is higher and because of dead space issues in mask. - nose breathing for me is just a stepping stone in the OC bail routine.

When I bailed to OC (800m inside Russel cave) after a full flood I found the exhaust wob high enough to be uncomfortable but I still appreciated having the ability to breathe while I was fumbling for my 2nd stages and plugging them in and I was quite stressed seeing as my scooter had also just failed and I didnt have enough OC bail gas to swim back from there ....

I have considered changing the spring to a lighter one and may give it a go.

paulraymaekers · 25th November 2007, 09:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I have considered changing the spring to a lighter one and may give it a go.

just cutting 1/3 to 1/2 off the spring and flatten the end makes a world of difference.

regards
paul

Drmike · 25th November 2007, 10:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

just cutting 1/3 to 1/2 off the spring and flatten the end makes a world of difference.

regards
paul

Thats good to know - thanks - Ill swap it out with a softer spring (I dont want to cut the original in case I need to put it back

) and I have a shed load of springs in workshop

lizardland · 25th November 2007, 10:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

At any given time the BOV can only be plumbed into one gas, so which gas do you plumb it into?

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Well, if you use multiple gases the BOV obviously must be plugged into the correct one. Same is true for the ADV if you have one.

Exactly. If you're diving gases which are restricted in the depth range of your dive then you better make damn sure you know how to deal with them. Accidentally switching on to a hypoxic gas shallow or having it leak into my loop is something that does concern me and I've re-plumbed my CK to hopefully mitigate it.

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

One of the issues I have been told about regarding the BOV is that it is not a solution in the event of a heavy caustic cocktail.

I accidentally swallowed a tiny bit of lime whilst filling my scrubber once and was puking very quickly. Not to over-emphasise how little lime, it was a trace of dust that had stuck to my finger and I licked my finger to pick something up without thinking. It was almost nothing. I've also been nauseous underwater (and underground) when the top screen on the scrubber cracked and I sucked in some lime dust. I have no doubt that even a minor cocktail would make the DSV useless. Since both these incidents I've had a great deal of respect for lime and even more for anyone who has survived a cocktail.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mattmexico)

However, if you get into a situation where you for what ever reason really have to hand over your stage tank then you loose your own redundancy.

My deep stage has a long hosed reg attached so that I don't have to hand it off. It is connected onto the manifold of my CK with an Omniswivel QC which is also on the end of a 1.5m hose so even if I did hand it off it wouldn't be a major task to hook it in again for a puff of dil.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I think everyone is missing the main advantage of a BOV.

Having a bov promotes an earlier bail. which I believe is a big safety feature

I think you are dead right. My BOV (the great Paragon) packed in and I went about a year without having one until I replaced it with the Mares kit. In that year I found my mindset worked exactly as you said -- bailing out is a bigger job so you wait that bit longer, maybe try SCR'ing, maybe open loop. Also the act of bailing out is (under pressure) a protracted process. OK it's maybe a few seconds but when you've nothing to breathe it feels like a long time and when you get a gobful of water combined with the urge to breathe it is an unnecessarily stressful situation which has the potential to snowball. With the BOV it's totally different and the ease with which it is possible to switch between OC & CC means you stay on top of your loop.

I went a year thinking a BOV was a luxury and it was simple to cope without. After just two dives with having a BOV I now think that is a self-deluding mindset.

Cheers,

Stuart

***Decodiver*** · 25th November 2007, 13:16

What Stuart refers to on the cocktail issue is why I do not use a BOV by preference.

However, Mike's experience with CO2 is a very valid point FOR a BOV.

Personally, at the first sign of elevated CO2 I am off the loop faster than a fast thing in fastville, I know that works for me beacuse I have bailed deep because of elevated CO2 on two occassions.

If a unit comes as stock with a BOV, I will probably dive it that way, my KISS being an example of that. If not, then I probably won't.

Where the problem comes is say the Sentinel, can have one with, or without.

I guess I will probably get both, at least so I can mirror the setup of a students unit whilst teaching.

The key will be to see which one I use for my own diving, and there I just do not know yet.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

**Dave Sutton** · 25th November 2007, 14:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

I think everyone is missing the main advantage of a BOV.

Having a bov promotes an earlier bail. which I believe is a big safety feature

I found when diving without a BOV the percieved hassle of bailing to OC (closing dsv, spitting it out, locating and fumbling for offboard 2nd stage reg and shoving it in me gob) the large stress raiser of having to come off the loop, was enough to encourage me to delay bailing until I was VERY sure I was having a problem.

The longer one delays to bail the higher up the CO2 spiral ride to death we are and the harder it is to recover - and if high enough we cant recover (and likely cant even bail)

Hear Hear.

There is *absolutely* no doubt that I. for one, am alive today because of a BOV, for exactly the reasons cited. I have ZERO doubt that I would be dead without having had one. And this from someone who has had an alpinist mindset since the beginning...

In my incident, I was totally task saturated at 200 (feet) on an anchor line in a strong current.. had only one hand to use (letting go of the line there a hundred miles offshore with the current and deco I needed to do = death), and it was *all* could do to turn the knob. No shit. If I had needed to grab an offboard reg, even without closing the DSV... I would be dead today. C02 comes on so fast it's positively terrifying. it's the ONLY thing I fear diving.

You ALSO need an OC regulator hanging... for caustic cocktails, etc. You *need* both, for this sort of diving anyhow.

Live and Learn. Hopefully....

IMHO, this ought to be a non-discussion.

Dave

24th November 2007, 14:44	#11 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,461	To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit This is the split thread from the NACD Cave Summit Report Thread Last edited by diverklondike : 24th November 2007 at 14:49.
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24th November 2007, 15:12	#12 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit To me a BOV is a must have piece of kit. The more i read about people having C02 hits the more i realize the chances of going OC after a hit are slim without it. My BOV was plumbed into inboard 3ltr which i try to keep at 230+ bar and was designed as immediate bailout with a switch after a half dozen breaths on to large off board tanks. Following debate with Dr Mike and a re think i decided to go fully off board with my bailout so no its connected to a 10ltr blown to 250bar on any dive below 60 and a 7ltr on any dive up to 60m. 90% of my diving allowed me to run a surface breathable gas for bailout. 16% will do me down to 80 ish m and its breathable on the surface. If i go past 80 i need another deep bailout which may be hypoxic on the surface, So i use a gas connect system. I jump in with bottom mix plumbed in as I rightly or wrongly believe nothing much is likely to happen in the first 5mins and with my wing i can head far enough out of the water to spit the loop. However on ascent i will be spending considerable time in the shallows so I will disconnect my BOV feed and reconnect to 50% at 21m In oder to ID the tanks the BOV feed is on a 2m hose and the tanks have 6" whips on them. So ID the tank and connect feed. If tanks need to be handed off then I can reconnect the BOV to inboard (needs assistance to do easily but can be done solo.) Or i can connect to an alternative mix. All off boards have their own OC regs attached. I have sat and thought about it and had lots of experimental goes at configs but this is the one i like the best so far. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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25th November 2007, 09:02	#13 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit I think everyone is missing the main advantage of a BOV. Having a bov promotes an earlier bail. which I believe is a big safety feature I found when diving without a BOV the percieved hassle of bailing to OC (closing dsv, spitting it out, locating and fumbling for offboard 2nd stage reg and shoving it in me gob) the large stress raiser of having to come off the loop, was enough to encourage me to delay bailing until I was VERY sure I was having a problem. My thought process was , 'I dont want to go to the hassle of bailing unless I am very sure Im having an issue ...so lets wait a fe moments longer and see if I start feeling worse'. With a BOV and the easy turn handle bail I found that it encouraged me to bail at the slightest feeling that something wasnt right. Bailing with a BOV is far far less of a stress raiser also which can be a critical thing during CO2/Stress/panic scenario when your trying to reduce your rmv. In addition bailing with a BOV in a way doenst feel like your coming off the loop in a way as teh dsv stays in your mouth. Changing the status quo in my experience is a major stress raiser during stressful times (one reason why it can be impossible to even come off the loop if it requires you to 1) stop breathing 2) spit out your dsv. With a BOV it feels significantly less like anything has changed and you dont have to pause breathing. (the latter point IMHO is absolutely critical to appreciate) The longer one delays to bail the higher up the CO2 spiral ride to death we are and the harder it is to recover - and if high enough we cant recover (and likely cant even bail) This is why I even preffer the side reg on the nova over a BOV (I dont use BOV with the nova) because with the side reg Its even easier to bail (get fresh gas) just by nose breathing - the end result is that I automatically and habitually start nose breathing whenever I feel almost impercievable levels of CO2 basically: Side reg = fastest encouraged bail* at earliest possible sign, no stress raiser BOV = early encouraged bail, min stress raiser OC = slowest encouraged bail, highest stress raiser, risk of flooding loop, with the side reg I wouldnt even call it a bail as its more a prevention rather than a cure. Most BOV dont breathe well so I would consider them only as a 1st step on OC bail. I would only have it plumbed into 1st deep bail tank then when ready to switch gases should be perfectly calm enough by then to come off the bov and go to offboard 2nd stages. IMO gas switchblocks are stupidly dangerous and the risks dont outweigh the benefits __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 25th November 2007 at 09:12.*
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25th November 2007, 09:32	#14 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,381	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) This is why I even preffer the side reg on the nova over a BOV (I dont use BOV with the nova) because with the side reg Its even easier to bail (get fresh gas) just by nose breathing hi mike, just a very short question aside... did you alter the spring of the OPV in your nova?? (to exhale easier by nose?) regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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25th November 2007, 09:55	#15 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) hi mike, just a very short question aside... did you alter the spring of the OPV in your nova?? (to exhale easier by nose?) regards paul Hi Paul, Nope, Im only taking a few breaths and when I exhale (nose) most of the exhaust gas blows out from around the FFM seal as well as the mask OPV. Pulling the bottom of the FFM forward helps but I dont bother. The point is the nose breathing is only for a few santity breaths and done at the 1st and earliest possible time long before your RMV is going to be an issue with WOB of the exhaust cycle. If after nose breathing fsanity breath I cant clear my head then its time for full bail (dsv replaced by p-ported off board OC reg) I dont think you can and should stay nose breathing for anything more than a few sanity breaths seeing as WOB exhale is higher and because of dead space issues in mask. - nose breathing for me is just a stepping stone in the OC bail routine. When I bailed to OC (800m inside Russel cave) after a full flood I found the exhaust wob high enough to be uncomfortable but I still appreciated having the ability to breathe while I was fumbling for my 2nd stages and plugging them in and I was quite stressed seeing as my scooter had also just failed and I didnt have enough OC bail gas to swim back from there .... I have considered changing the spring to a lighter one and may give it a go. __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 25th November 2007 at 09:58.
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25th November 2007, 09:59	#16 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,381	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I have considered changing the spring to a lighter one and may give it a go. just cutting 1/3 to 1/2 off the spring and flatten the end makes a world of difference. regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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25th November 2007, 10:02	#17 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,128	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) just cutting 1/3 to 1/2 off the spring and flatten the end makes a world of difference. regards paul Thats good to know - thanks - Ill swap it out with a softer spring (I dont want to cut the original in case I need to put it back ) and I have a shed load of springs in workshop __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you
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25th November 2007, 10:08	#18 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,187	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) At any given time the BOV can only be plumbed into one gas, so which gas do you plumb it into? Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Well, if you use multiple gases the BOV obviously must be plugged into the correct one. Same is true for the ADV if you have one. Exactly. If you're diving gases which are restricted in the depth range of your dive then you better make damn sure you know how to deal with them. Accidentally switching on to a hypoxic gas shallow or having it leak into my loop is something that does concern me and I've re-plumbed my CK to hopefully mitigate it. Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) One of the issues I have been told about regarding the BOV is that it is not a solution in the event of a heavy caustic cocktail. I accidentally swallowed a tiny bit of lime whilst filling my scrubber once and was puking very quickly. Not to over-emphasise how little lime, it was a trace of dust that had stuck to my finger and I licked my finger to pick something up without thinking. It was almost nothing. I've also been nauseous underwater (and underground) when the top screen on the scrubber cracked and I sucked in some lime dust. I have no doubt that even a minor cocktail would make the DSV useless. Since both these incidents I've had a great deal of respect for lime and even more for anyone who has survived a cocktail. Quote: (Originally Posted by mattmexico) However, if you get into a situation where you for what ever reason really have to hand over your stage tank then you loose your own redundancy. My deep stage has a long hosed reg attached so that I don't have to hand it off. It is connected onto the manifold of my CK with an Omniswivel QC which is also on the end of a 1.5m hose so even if I did hand it off it wouldn't be a major task to hook it in again for a puff of dil. Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I think everyone is missing the main advantage of a BOV. Having a bov promotes an earlier bail. which I believe is a big safety feature I think you are dead right. My BOV (the great Paragon) packed in and I went about a year without having one until I replaced it with the Mares kit. In that year I found my mindset worked exactly as you said -- bailing out is a bigger job so you wait that bit longer, maybe try SCR'ing, maybe open loop. Also the act of bailing out is (under pressure) a protracted process. OK it's maybe a few seconds but when you've nothing to breathe it feels like a long time and when you get a gobful of water combined with the urge to breathe it is an unnecessarily stressful situation which has the potential to snowball. With the BOV it's totally different and the ease with which it is possible to switch between OC & CC means you stay on top of your loop. I went a year thinking a BOV was a luxury and it was simple to cope without. After just two dives with having a BOV I now think that is a self-deluding mindset. Cheers, Stuart __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
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25th November 2007, 13:16	#19 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit What Stuart refers to on the cocktail issue is why I do not use a BOV by preference. However, Mike's experience with CO2 is a very valid point FOR a BOV. Personally, at the first sign of elevated CO2 I am off the loop faster than a fast thing in fastville, I know that works for me beacuse I have bailed deep because of elevated CO2 on two occassions. If a unit comes as stock with a BOV, I will probably dive it that way, my KISS being an example of that. If not, then I probably won't. Where the problem comes is say the Sentinel, can have one with, or without. I guess I will probably get both, at least so I can mirror the setup of a students unit whilst teaching. The key will be to see which one I use for my own diving, and there I just do not know yet. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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25th November 2007, 14:13	#20 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,511	Re: To BOV or not BOV - Split From NACD Cave Summit Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) I think everyone is missing the main advantage of a BOV. Having a bov promotes an earlier bail. which I believe is a big safety feature I found when diving without a BOV the percieved hassle of bailing to OC (closing dsv, spitting it out, locating and fumbling for offboard 2nd stage reg and shoving it in me gob) the large stress raiser of having to come off the loop, was enough to encourage me to delay bailing until I was VERY sure I was having a problem. The longer one delays to bail the higher up the CO2 spiral ride to death we are and the harder it is to recover - and if high enough we cant recover (and likely cant even bail) Hear Hear. There is absolutely no doubt that I. for one, am alive today because of a BOV, for exactly the reasons cited. I have ZERO doubt that I would be dead without having had one. And this from someone who has had an alpinist mindset since the beginning... In my incident, I was totally task saturated at 200 (feet) on an anchor line in a strong current.. had only one hand to use (letting go of the line there a hundred miles offshore with the current and deco I needed to do = death), and it was all could do to turn the knob. No shit. If I had needed to grab an offboard reg, even without closing the DSV... I would be dead today. C02 comes on so fast it's positively terrifying. it's the ONLY thing I fear diving. You ALSO need an OC regulator hanging... for caustic cocktails, etc. You need both, for this sort of diving anyhow. Live and Learn. Hopefully.... IMHO, this ought to be a non-discussion. Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled. Last edited by Dave Sutton : 25th November 2007 at 14:22.
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