Options for onboard gas access.

**Dave Sutton** · 13th May 2007, 13:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

I found it a peice of cake. Handing off to an OC buddy, trying to make things difficult for me (at my request) by pulling on the hose before dis-connecting. Needed two hands for that. Otherwise, the Golem QD I use can disconnect with a single hand if I get a good grip on it .

Good, Glad it worked. Excellent for you to have done the test.

Two comments:

(1): You are in warm water and not wearing 7MM gloves? The small diameter couplings on the Golem and other "aftermarket" hoses (IE not Unisuit or Viking) are OK with bare hand or with thin glove. Not so good with the thick gloves for fast removal.

(2): VERY IMPORTANT: The Golem QD *looks* like a CEJN but is NOT INTERCHANGABLE. I do not know how they got this wrong (it's a sgtandard part sold by folks other than Golem, we just all *buy* from there, so want to give him the credit). It's "almost" the same but will not lock. This is why I use the Ocean Reef parts for the same work.

Jakub: If you read this, can you beg to M&J to change this poart to CEJN standard?

Best,

Dave

**Freef** · 13th May 2007, 14:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

"Commie" being slang for "Commercial Diver"

Nah, communist. Join the revolution comrade?

What you need to consider is the likelyhood of something going wrong and the ways to prevent it killing you. If you have a loop problem, or a manual valve sticking and your bailout and/or deco is plumbed into the loop, can you still breathe the gas for long enough to get back to the surface?

OC is easy as you have one reg per deco mix. If you start plumbing things into a switch block or BOV then you must also be able to use them if things go wrong.

If a full face mask is used then you must consider that you may have to dump the mask at some point and plan accordingly.

Apeks make a freeflow control device that is fitted between the second stage and the intermediate hose allowing a freeflowing second stage to be isolated simply. I have never used one of these, but if there was one that could be fitted to the first stage I could plumb deco into my Dolphin and be able to isolate SCR deco and go OC if I needed to, without running a Y valve.

At the moment all deco is done OC though.

divetheworld · 13th May 2007, 15:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

"Commie" being slang for "Commercial Diver" I presume and not one who flies Commie Jet Fighters or dives Commie IDA-71's? .... ?

The block is functionally identical to the one on a Superlite 17 or any of the band masks, less the freeflow valve, so good eye.

Dave

Yup!
Cheers mate.

Brent

**Dave Sutton** · 13th May 2007, 19:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by Freef)

your bailout and/or deco is plumbed into the loop, can you still breathe the gas for long enough to get back to the surface?

Err.... what difference does it make if it serves the loop *in addition to an OC regulator* or not?

As long as the line to the rig can be disconnected, or isolated, it makes no difference at all. Volume is volume. Make it breathable from "some" open circuit reg if you are worried about OC bailout, and then look with your eyes open to see if that gas might also be shared with the rig. Share resources, that's all.

If you dive a CCR, and you carry stage bottles, using a "smidgen" of that gas as your rigs diluent supply just makes sense

If that gas is all available to a BOV then even better.

In any event, this is off the thread. The discussion is not "should we" but "how" to plumb gas to a BOV. The assumption of the thread is that the decision has already been taken to do so.

Dave

Gilles · 14th May 2007, 04:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

(1): You are in warm water and not wearing 7MM gloves?

The South China Sea off the NW coast of Borneo is P**S warm (29 degC), and gets down to about 22-24 deg at 60-70m.

**Dave Sutton** · 14th May 2007, 11:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

The South China Sea off the NW coast of Borneo is P**S warm (29 degC), and gets down to about 22-24 deg at 60-70m.

Bastard.... Guess you don't need those large diameter Unisuit hoses for your drysuit mitts...

We're quite happy when it gets to 12 here..... . Right now the surface water is closer to 10. Winter has the bottom at 30 meters down to *2* (which we still dive in). Surface in the summer *might* get to 20-22, but 3 meters under? Never....

Shit, I'm packing my bags. Think EXPLORER could make Borneo?

Best,

Dave

lof · 15th May 2007, 02:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Jakub: If you read this, can you beg to M&J to change this poart to CEJN standard?

Best,

Dave

I have been begging them since January. We will see.

You can also go Omniswivel all the way, i.e. add their QDs to the wing and drysuit.

Jakub

**Dave Sutton** · 15th May 2007, 12:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by lof)

I have been begging them since January. We will see.

You can also go Omniswivel all the way, i.e. add their QDs to the wing and drysuit.

Jakub

Understood. I think sticking to the CEJN standard is the way to go, as there are already many divers here with the hoses on other items, so keep begging (for us!)

And, er....... since I need a BOV and you need a jet fighter ride, are we on for a flight?

Dave

Gilles · 7th September 2007, 06:55

I am now nearly finished designing/installing my gas switch system.

Pic 1 is the schematic I decided upon. Y-blocks on inboard regs is to allow use of Pozzie regs I have. The system enables switching between on/off-board diluent, and onboard O2 can be plugged in into the receptacle normally used for offboard dil. By default, offboard dil is on, onboard dil always feeds wing and onboard shut-off is on, and O2 is plugged into left CL man-ad (exhale CL on Megs).

Pic 2 is just Meg. Note the yellow O2 hose that I normally connect to my left CL man-ad. Also note the object semi-hidden between the LH CL and wing inflator.

Pic 3 is the inner side of the inflator, revealing the switchblock and its connections. I took the Omniswivel off the BOV and using it here instead. Not that useful for BOV. I put a shut-off to protect the wing filling capability of the onboard tank.

Pic 4 is a sideview where my left arm will come through. You can see the swivel on the bottom of the photo. From the swivel, the feed hose goes back behind my left arm, into a Y-block where the feed is split into BOV and ADV. The front (left on photo), has another Y-block that splits the onboard supply to the Switch and wing inflator. Not suitable for drysuit (yet).

Pic 5 illustrates connection of my yellow O2 hose from left CL man-ad to feed the system (for OC) if necessary.

Tomorrow it goes in the water. Currently figuring out a "valve drill" to learn to isolate any leak or problem. Following is a list I'd like to simplify.

If leak
1) Switchblock off
1a) Purge BOV and deplete, if still leak
1b) Disconnect offboard, if still leak
1c) Close Shut-off on-board supply, if still leak
1d) Shut-off dil tank and deplete wing inflator, if still leak

2) Shut offboard tank(s) valve(s), if still leak

From O2 or Rebreather

3) Re-open offboard tank(s)
3a) Re-connect offboard to system
3b) Set switchblock to offboard
3c) Re-Open dil tank
3d) Open onboard dil shut-off

4) Get O2 pressure
5) Turn dive or Bail out (if necessary)

nmanfield · 7th September 2007, 09:30

Blimey Gilles!

Looks like you're diving with an oil refinery strapped to you!!!

Hope it works out

View Poll Results: Which BOV plumbing concept (to include onboard gas) is preferred?
All QD's using no switchblocks	14	38.89%
1 Switch for off to onboard dil. QD at BOV for O2	5	13.89%
Like option2 but QD's at switchblock	2	5.56%
Two switchblocks.	1	2.78%
Use 2nd stages on each tank	17	47.22%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

13th May 2007, 13:59	#21 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,512	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles) I found it a peice of cake. Handing off to an OC buddy, trying to make things difficult for me (at my request) by pulling on the hose before dis-connecting. Needed two hands for that. Otherwise, the Golem QD I use can disconnect with a single hand if I get a good grip on it . Good, Glad it worked. Excellent for you to have done the test. Two comments: (1): You are in warm water and not wearing 7MM gloves? The small diameter couplings on the Golem and other "aftermarket" hoses (IE not Unisuit or Viking) are OK with bare hand or with thin glove. Not so good with the thick gloves for fast removal. (2): VERY IMPORTANT: The Golem QD looks like a CEJN but is NOT INTERCHANGABLE. I do not know how they got this wrong (it's a sgtandard part sold by folks other than Golem, we just all buy from there, so want to give him the credit). It's "almost" the same but will not lock. This is why I use the Ocean Reef parts for the same work. Jakub: If you read this, can you beg to M&J to change this poart to CEJN standard? Best, Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
(Online)

13th May 2007, 14:01	#22 (permalink)
Freef Custom Title Disallowed! Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Land of the Freef, UK. Posts: 1,356	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) "Commie" being slang for "Commercial Diver" Nah, communist. Join the revolution comrade? What you need to consider is the likelyhood of something going wrong and the ways to prevent it killing you. If you have a loop problem, or a manual valve sticking and your bailout and/or deco is plumbed into the loop, can you still breathe the gas for long enough to get back to the surface? OC is easy as you have one reg per deco mix. If you start plumbing things into a switch block or BOV then you must also be able to use them if things go wrong. If a full face mask is used then you must consider that you may have to dump the mask at some point and plan accordingly. Apeks make a freeflow control device that is fitted between the second stage and the intermediate hose allowing a freeflowing second stage to be isolated simply. I have never used one of these, but if there was one that could be fitted to the first stage I could plumb deco into my Dolphin and be able to isolate SCR deco and go OC if I needed to, without running a Y valve. At the moment all deco is done OC though. __________________ David. Currently owner of two differently sized ankles. Last edited by Freef : 13th May 2007 at 14:21. Reason: pic added
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13th May 2007, 15:34	#23 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,537	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) "Commie" being slang for "Commercial Diver" I presume and not one who flies Commie Jet Fighters or dives Commie IDA-71's? .... ? The block is functionally identical to the one on a Superlite 17 or any of the band masks, less the freeflow valve, so good eye. Dave Yup! Cheers mate. Brent __________________ Self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
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13th May 2007, 19:42	#24 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,512	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Quote: (Originally Posted by Freef) your bailout and/or deco is plumbed into the loop, can you still breathe the gas for long enough to get back to the surface? Err.... what difference does it make if it serves the loop in addition to an OC regulator or not? As long as the line to the rig can be disconnected, or isolated, it makes no difference at all. Volume is volume. Make it breathable from "some" open circuit reg if you are worried about OC bailout, and then look with your eyes open to see if that gas might also be shared with the rig. Share resources, that's all. If you dive a CCR, and you carry stage bottles, using a "smidgen" of that gas as your rigs diluent supply just makes sense If that gas is all available to a BOV then even better. In any event, this is off the thread. The discussion is not "should we" but "how" to plumb gas to a BOV. The assumption of the thread is that the decision has already been taken to do so. Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled. Last edited by Dave Sutton : 13th May 2007 at 19:44.
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14th May 2007, 04:44	#25 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 761	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) (1): You are in warm water and not wearing 7MM gloves? The South China Sea off the NW coast of Borneo is P**S warm (29 degC), and gets down to about 22-24 deg at 60-70m. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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14th May 2007, 11:59	#26 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,512	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles) The South China Sea off the NW coast of Borneo is P*S warm (29 degC), and gets down to about 22-24 deg at 60-70m. Bastard.... Guess you don't need those large diameter Unisuit hoses for your drysuit mitts... We're quite happy when it gets to 12 here..... . Right now the surface water is closer to 10. Winter has the bottom at 30 meters down to 2* (which we still dive in). Surface in the summer might get to 20-22, but 3 meters under? Never.... Shit, I'm packing my bags. Think EXPLORER could make Borneo? Best, Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
(Online)

15th May 2007, 02:46	#27 (permalink)
lof RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 457	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Jakub: If you read this, can you beg to M&J to change this poart to CEJN standard? Best, Dave I have been begging them since January. We will see. You can also go Omniswivel all the way, i.e. add their QDs to the wing and drysuit. Jakub __________________ Jakub Golem Gear ShopKeeper www.golemgear.com
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15th May 2007, 12:45	#28 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,512	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Quote: (Originally Posted by lof) I have been begging them since January. We will see. You can also go Omniswivel all the way, i.e. add their QDs to the wing and drysuit. Jakub Understood. I think sticking to the CEJN standard is the way to go, as there are already many divers here with the hoses on other items, so keep begging (for us!) And, er....... since I need a BOV and you need a jet fighter ride, are we on for a flight? Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
(Online)

7th September 2007, 09:30	#30 (permalink)
nmanfield Megalegalegalegadingdong! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Odessa, Ukraine Posts: 329	Re: Options for onboard gas access. Blimey Gilles! Looks like you're diving with an oil refinery strapped to you!!! Hope it works out __________________ Tub 'O Lard
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