as I just said:-
Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)
I love it when in the middle of some potentially heated debate we get someone we never hear from suddenly apear - this usually suggests their a sock puppet or someone with a bias or agenda.
oh look another one.: rolleyes:
Read my posts. Argue my facts, argue my logic add your opinion but we can do without all this BS crap about peoples egos and the rest of that shite - it has
nothing to do with the thread.
I simply made a comment about vpmb that ross doesnt agree with - big woopie and I corrected some mistakes he has made with his list of dives - thats it.
Now either show me Im wrong I am not bothered if you do as I would
honestly want to know or if you cant do that or have no intention to do that kindy keep the kind of childishness to yourself
Now I suppose I had better read your post:-
Quote: (Originally Posted by
aainslie)
Ignoring Mike's debate for the sake of debate (and an OLD one he's hashed out elsewhere with no reall added info here),
I have never before debated VPMB. I have never before debated the fact Ben didnt use VPMB or that the Yamashiro dive wasnt to 190m (a fact that as far as I know CV has never claimed - Just Ross's typo I suspect) or that VPM isnt well validated or that its sucessive tweaks have resulted in something better and more useful. I have debated just
one point before (CV dive in sra keow III) which is the ONE point that you clearly have fixated upon and rather simple mindedly tried to turn the whole debate into a focus on that when it isnt and wasnt my intention at all.
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the simple fact is that whatever is in the VR3, it's NOT VPM/B. There are several reasons that this must be true - 1) that computer doesn't have the computing power to do the necessary coaculations, and 2) Ross, I and others have repeatedly pointed out (on TDS) that VR3's implementation is a load of bollocks, with NO response from Delta P.
I dont disagee, neither does Ross or anyone else as far as I can see. Its no secret that VR3VPM is not true VPM - who in this thread said it was??
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Talk about "marketing spin"! Delta P charge an upgraded price for whatever the hell this thing is that theyv'e implemented, tell half-truths about the underlying algorithm, and you claim that Ross is "spinning" things?
Your getting all confused. I never accused Ross of spinning anything about VR3VPM. where did you get that from? I did quote Ross's website where he says VR3 is using vpm like model - so even Ross agrees its VPM like. I think your confused. As for DeltaP telling half truths they told me it wasnt true VPM when I spoke to them. They said it was VPM like. which is exactly the same as what Ross says on his site (about the VR3vpm) so I dont see that they me Ross or jimmy hoffa are saying anything different. So I have no idea where you got that idea or this amount of anger from.
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For that mattter Mike, how can you possibly call whatever teh abortion that VR3 uses in it's weird Buhlmannesque algorithm Buhlmann? And on Buhlmann - isn't that also a modification of Haldane, subsequently remodified by adding GF's - because each of THESE tended in earlier versions to bend people?
This bizarre psuedo-Luddite attack of yours on Ross just makes no sense.
It doesnt make sense to correct that bens dive wasnt as listed on ross website a vpm dive?, or that yamashiro dive wasnt to 190m but 176m?, it doesnt make sense to correct these dive lists? why not? I didnt just attack Ross - Read the thread. i made a comment that he and me debated over (re: validation of vpm and revision of vpm) and i gave him some corrections for his dive list - thats it- no personal attack. In fact the
only personal attack in this thread came from you.....and Im the one with the ego??
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And on the offchance you want to call me a sock puppet - my name is Andrew Ainslie - google it. I'm the one at UCLA. You'll find a phone number if that's your preferred mode of communication - but wait, you didn't choose that with Ross, did you? And I've met you before, back when you and Cedric were buddies - but you were so utterly taken by your own brilliance that you didn't really notice my - or anyone else's - presence during your trip.
Man, you have a serious ego!
Wow - are you ok?. Oh ok I see your one of those. Ok look I am sorry if I dont remember you - I meet a lot of people. But what does me not remembering you got to do with this discussion? I dont understand what point your trying to make here perhaps you can elaborate? What has my ego or me not remembering you got to do with anything? does my ego change the degree of validation of vpmb? does me not remembering you make Bens Zplanner dive a VPM one? I dont get why you bring my personality, ego or having met you into the discussion.
You see this is what amazes me about some people who write posts just like yours. I make some factual comments or opinionn that somepeople for some reason dont like, now some people choose to argue my facts and propose other opinions - good on them! thats what this forum is about - yet others like you just preffer to NOT argue facts or propose opinion but instead rant on about personalities and egos and who met who and other such irelevancies
Why cant people like you stick to debating facts instead of resorting to childishness like this?
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Ross's software is beyond outstanding.
I agree - i mentioned the fact I use it (vpmbe) for planning for which its very useful indeed!. The only reason I dont use it for dives is as i stated because on deep dives comp are more accurate. In this thread I simply stated that it has never been fully validated (and Ross latter agreed) and corrected some mistakes he had on his dive list that he referenced in this thread.
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And the VR3 is miles behind, both in terms of computing power and disclosure about the underlying algorithms, the X1. And the VR3's "VPM based" (their wording) algorithm is anything but VPM. I suspect it's a Buhlmann GF model tweaked to give square profiles similar to VPM/B, but I'm guessing there.
you may be right about the algo - but again I dont see anyone arguing that point either way