Rebreather World - View Single Post - KLM just became anti-diver

AD_ward9 · 12th January 2008, 10:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

If the airlines were charging you an extra 100 for the ticket price, but not for the baggage, would you as a diver carrying all that gear be whining? Probably not. The other passengers just going about normal travel would. It's all about perception and where you get sacked.

It is not just an extra $100: if the airline charge an extra $100 for dive kit, like many discount airlines do (Globespan, Norwegian Air, Zoom), that is OK. We are not whining about that, but about plain fraud and theft.

The issue here is the older European airline charges are totally out of order through the use of caps that are too low: DrMike reported paying over $3000 on one flight, one way, for dive kit. Others are reporting charges of 100 Euro per kilo. Say a diver has 60kg of kit, of which 20kg is free (in Europe). If 100 Euro/kg is applied to the rest, that is 4,000 Euro on top of the ticket price! This is not on their web sites. Customers are deceived until they are hit with the charge.

Now compare that with carrying people. If an average person is 120kg check in (man dressed in a coat, 20kg check in, 10kg carry on), and was charged 100 Euro/kg, he would pay 12,000 Euro for a ticket ($17,000). If the airlines try charging that to any group, even in first class, we would see their revenues wash down the toilet and they would all be bust. So why are these astronomical charges being applied to divers? Answer: divers clearly have more disposable income than the average, so extract it out of them.

I do wish every success to the good discount airlines: they are knocking the pants off the old airlines on every score that matters:

Cost, including that of bags. On Zoom dive kit is free (even 150kg), Globespan charge $60, Norwegian Air charged $30, Evergreen was free.
Baggage arriving: the four I mentioned at least delivered my bags, which is better than BA and Flybee managed to do (they lost them 20 times in 21 trips). I am sure that when a bag does go astray, they can find it faster too: the last trip I got rerouted onto Flybee due to a late connection on SAS, it took them five days to deliver from Birmingam to Edinburgh. A previous BA trip took 8 weeks to return my bags. Flybee are a BA offshoot.
Seat size. On Zoom, Evergreen and Globespan the seats were business seats for an economy price.
On time arrival. A journey from St Petersburg to Edinburgh on Sunday on SAS and Flybee took 32 hours, and loss of all bags for 5 days.
Security. Zoom, Globespan, Norwegian Air and Evergreen do not go via hubs that employ the thugs and pervert types for security, such as at Amsterdam. Apart from items being taken from baggage, at least the TSA screeners are ordinary people and have been trained. In contrast, Amsterdam security sometimes brings to mind the Stanford Prison Experiment: what happens when you put untrained people into power.

Budget airlines are where the wise travellers go. Pity KLM joined the "bad" group: they used to be excellent. Now they face problems of their pervert security screeners at Amsterdam and their decision to stop taking diver's luggage over 20kg even with a charge, puts them in with BA and Flybee for service level.

Sending stuff in advance by freight is hopeless: I have been hit by Customs charges this year of 130% of the cost of the goods, and 9 months to clear one item. Carnets do not work for unaccompanied baggage. For any serious tech diving, renting it on arrival is just not an option.

Vote with our feet. Once the divers are gone these old airlines will pick on another group. Eventually when target groups are too thin, they will think about who pays their salaries, and what service level their customers expect for that.

Alex

12th January 2008, 10:50	#46 (permalink)
AD_ward9 - Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 2,007	Re: KLM just became anti-diver Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) If the airlines were charging you an extra 100 for the ticket price, but not for the baggage, would you as a diver carrying all that gear be whining? Probably not. The other passengers just going about normal travel would. It's all about perception and where you get sacked. It is not just an extra $100: if the airline charge an extra $100 for dive kit, like many discount airlines do (Globespan, Norwegian Air, Zoom), that is OK. We are not whining about that, but about plain fraud and theft. The issue here is the older European airline charges are totally out of order through the use of caps that are too low: DrMike reported paying over $3000 on one flight, one way, for dive kit. Others are reporting charges of 100 Euro per kilo. Say a diver has 60kg of kit, of which 20kg is free (in Europe). If 100 Euro/kg is applied to the rest, that is 4,000 Euro on top of the ticket price! This is not on their web sites. Customers are deceived until they are hit with the charge. Now compare that with carrying people. If an average person is 120kg check in (man dressed in a coat, 20kg check in, 10kg carry on), and was charged 100 Euro/kg, he would pay 12,000 Euro for a ticket ($17,000). If the airlines try charging that to any group, even in first class, we would see their revenues wash down the toilet and they would all be bust. So why are these astronomical charges being applied to divers? Answer: divers clearly have more disposable income than the average, so extract it out of them. I do wish every success to the good discount airlines: they are knocking the pants off the old airlines on every score that matters: Cost, including that of bags. On Zoom dive kit is free (even 150kg), Globespan charge $60, Norwegian Air charged $30, Evergreen was free. Baggage arriving: the four I mentioned at least delivered my bags, which is better than BA and Flybee managed to do (they lost them 20 times in 21 trips). I am sure that when a bag does go astray, they can find it faster too: the last trip I got rerouted onto Flybee due to a late connection on SAS, it took them five days to deliver from Birmingam to Edinburgh. A previous BA trip took 8 weeks to return my bags. Flybee are a BA offshoot. Seat size. On Zoom, Evergreen and Globespan the seats were business seats for an economy price. On time arrival. A journey from St Petersburg to Edinburgh on Sunday on SAS and Flybee took 32 hours, and loss of all bags for 5 days. Security. Zoom, Globespan, Norwegian Air and Evergreen do not go via hubs that employ the thugs and pervert types for security, such as at Amsterdam. Apart from items being taken from baggage, at least the TSA screeners are ordinary people and have been trained. In contrast, Amsterdam security sometimes brings to mind the Stanford Prison Experiment: what happens when you put untrained people into power. Budget airlines are where the wise travellers go. Pity KLM joined the "bad" group: they used to be excellent. Now they face problems of their pervert security screeners at Amsterdam and their decision to stop taking diver's luggage over 20kg even with a charge, puts them in with BA and Flybee for service level. Sending stuff in advance by freight is hopeless: I have been hit by Customs charges this year of 130% of the cost of the goods, and 9 months to clear one item. Carnets do not work for unaccompanied baggage. For any serious tech diving, renting it on arrival is just not an option. Vote with our feet. Once the divers are gone these old airlines will pick on another group. Eventually when target groups are too thin, they will think about who pays their salaries, and what service level their customers expect for that. Alex Last edited by AD_ward9 : 12th January 2008 at 11:13.
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