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n2diving · 17th November 2007, 19:02

I'm the guy who wrote the Dive Rite Express e-mail to my customers and I would like to address a few of the issues raised here...

There was no foot dragging by us or by AI. Because Dive Rite Express sells by far the largest number of cells (according to AI) we naturally have the largest 'sample size'. The problem did not surface immediately (it is age related) but routinely as we get returns from customers we send them back to AI for evaluations. We have always gotten returns on cells regardless of what brand or model. Under normal circumstances this is of no particular concern... a certain number get damaged in shipment and most returns have no problem at all when later examined (the user has actually blamed the sensor for what should have been diagnosed as connectivity problem, wiring harness problem, moisture problem, yada yada), and a few actually have single instances of imperfections or contamination. Whenever we get returned sensors, we immediately overnight them to AI for immediate evaluation. In this case AI figured out the problem reasonably quickly and notified us as soon as they understood the problem. We notified our customers the same day we learned about it from AI.

It seems to me that AI has no obligation or responsibility to issue any kind of 'recall notice' to the general public. They directly contacted their customers who bought them and informed their customers of the life expectancy issue. AI left it to Dive Rite Express as to how we wished to handle the issue with OUR customers. The affected cells were described to us as being an unknown but probably small percentage of the cells. AI had not issued a 'recall', we simply decided the best course was to replace them all. It was OUR decision on behalf of OUR customers. In our case, we keep records that allowed us to communicate directly with our customers who purchased them and so that's how we did it. It's a bit of a stretch to assume posting a notice on rebreatherworld.com or on our own website would suffice or even be particularly effective and timely. Further, we have been cautioned by rebreatherworld staff we are not to post business related content or content that mentions or links to Dive Rite Express or Rebreather Express. We hope an exception will be made with this post.

We have no particular concerns regarding the quality of the AI cells, in fact we sell the AI cell because we feel it’s the best available and we still feel that way. Every cell manufacturer has had 'bad batches'; I recall that Teledyne a while back had the conformal coating issues with cells. Overall the return rate of the AI cells (even with this issue) is still less than the return rate I had when I sold the Teledyne cells. This was later supported when Alex published his independent testing in which the Teledyne’s faired so poorly the Teledyne results were redacted from the final report. Given that occasional bad lots of cells are going to occur regardless of brand, then it seems to me that AI's response and handling of the issue has been quite reasonable and very ethical.

Some might recall a post I made on Rebreather World in May of this year in reference to all brands of O2 sensors: "...these things are not precision devices, they are high failure items that have a long history of quality control issues with amazing variations from lot to lot... the really paranoid rebreather divers install three sensors from three different lots and stagger the installation over a period of time...". A more detailed version is even linked on the sensors ordering page at Dive Rite Express. This is why most rebreather designs include three sensors and some people even like having a fourth. It's why most instructors teach how to recognize, diagnose and respond to failing cells. Failing cells are a fact of life until someone is willing to pay for cells that won't fail. I suspect it's possible, just not very economical at the current time, to build a nearly failure proof cell (Alex?). Until then, we'll do the best we can with what we have.

Some of the recent discussion involves testing. The cells from this particular batch test just OK right up until the moment they don't test OK. AI tests each and every one of the cells they ship to us at several stages of assembly, and then tests the final cell for several days. In fact I'm told by AI that most of the time it takes for a production cycle to complete is consumed with testing. I've sold and used the cells locally in our store and they tested OK there too. I have a 'Cell Checker' to test with as well as several other ways of testing them. While more testing and more elaborate testing can't hurt, it won't solve the problem of the DOA cell because package delivery service pulled so many G's on the package that the cell was damaged in shipment. Also more testing prior to shipping won't uncover problems that only manifest over time, as was the situation here.

I hope this provides more information regarding the Dive Rite Express e-mail to our customers.

Sincerely,
Mark Derrick

17th November 2007, 19:02	#48 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 272	Re: Attention!!! AI O2 Sensor Recall I'm the guy who wrote the Dive Rite Express e-mail to my customers and I would like to address a few of the issues raised here... There was no foot dragging by us or by AI. Because Dive Rite Express sells by far the largest number of cells (according to AI) we naturally have the largest 'sample size'. The problem did not surface immediately (it is age related) but routinely as we get returns from customers we send them back to AI for evaluations. We have always gotten returns on cells regardless of what brand or model. Under normal circumstances this is of no particular concern... a certain number get damaged in shipment and most returns have no problem at all when later examined (the user has actually blamed the sensor for what should have been diagnosed as connectivity problem, wiring harness problem, moisture problem, yada yada), and a few actually have single instances of imperfections or contamination. Whenever we get returned sensors, we immediately overnight them to AI for immediate evaluation. In this case AI figured out the problem reasonably quickly and notified us as soon as they understood the problem. We notified our customers the same day we learned about it from AI. It seems to me that AI has no obligation or responsibility to issue any kind of 'recall notice' to the general public. They directly contacted their customers who bought them and informed their customers of the life expectancy issue. AI left it to Dive Rite Express as to how we wished to handle the issue with OUR customers. The affected cells were described to us as being an unknown but probably small percentage of the cells. AI had not issued a 'recall', we simply decided the best course was to replace them all. It was OUR decision on behalf of OUR customers. In our case, we keep records that allowed us to communicate directly with our customers who purchased them and so that's how we did it. It's a bit of a stretch to assume posting a notice on rebreatherworld.com or on our own website would suffice or even be particularly effective and timely. Further, we have been cautioned by rebreatherworld staff we are not to post business related content or content that mentions or links to Dive Rite Express or Rebreather Express. We hope an exception will be made with this post. We have no particular concerns regarding the quality of the AI cells, in fact we sell the AI cell because we feel it’s the best available and we still feel that way. Every cell manufacturer has had 'bad batches'; I recall that Teledyne a while back had the conformal coating issues with cells. Overall the return rate of the AI cells (even with this issue) is still less than the return rate I had when I sold the Teledyne cells. This was later supported when Alex published his independent testing in which the Teledyne’s faired so poorly the Teledyne results were redacted from the final report. Given that occasional bad lots of cells are going to occur regardless of brand, then it seems to me that AI's response and handling of the issue has been quite reasonable and very ethical. Some might recall a post I made on Rebreather World in May of this year in reference to all brands of O2 sensors: "...these things are not precision devices, they are high failure items that have a long history of quality control issues with amazing variations from lot to lot... the really paranoid rebreather divers install three sensors from three different lots and stagger the installation over a period of time...". A more detailed version is even linked on the sensors ordering page at Dive Rite Express. This is why most rebreather designs include three sensors and some people even like having a fourth. It's why most instructors teach how to recognize, diagnose and respond to failing cells. Failing cells are a fact of life until someone is willing to pay for cells that won't fail. I suspect it's possible, just not very economical at the current time, to build a nearly failure proof cell (Alex?). Until then, we'll do the best we can with what we have. Some of the recent discussion involves testing. The cells from this particular batch test just OK right up until the moment they don't test OK. AI tests each and every one of the cells they ship to us at several stages of assembly, and then tests the final cell for several days. In fact I'm told by AI that most of the time it takes for a production cycle to complete is consumed with testing. I've sold and used the cells locally in our store and they tested OK there too. I have a 'Cell Checker' to test with as well as several other ways of testing them. While more testing and more elaborate testing can't hurt, it won't solve the problem of the DOA cell because package delivery service pulled so many G's on the package that the cell was damaged in shipment. Also more testing prior to shipping won't uncover problems that only manifest over time, as was the situation here. I hope this provides more information regarding the Dive Rite Express e-mail to our customers. Sincerely, Mark Derrick Last edited by n2diving : 17th November 2007 at 19:31.
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